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Old 01-23-2013, 05:57 PM   #46
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

then only people in top 150 are professional players according to you
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:09 PM   #47
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombrerero loco View Post
then only people in top 150 are professional players according to you
If they are the only ones who make a living, then yes. That doesn't mean the other guys can't roll the dice, or enjoy some years as journeymen, but at some point you have to make a decision.

My point is not that the rest should immidiately give up, but that you can't complain if you can't make a living out if.

There is just not a big enough market for third tier tennis. Here in Norway, athletes in lame sports like racewalking, or winter sports are always whining about lack of funding. Sports is first and foremost entertainment, and therefore is purely run by capitalism. If you ask me, that is about as fair as it gets.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:14 PM   #48
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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Originally Posted by latso View Post
they are relatively tight spread i would say.

This example will get worn soon, but in Turkey you have like 50 Futures per year, if not more.
Yes, Turkey is a good example of how it should be but that concept isn't very common, is it?
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:31 PM   #49
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

So it looks like the ATP and ITF doesn't care about lower ranked player. Sad but true, nothing new. They increase prizes at the top and talk about it everytime but they never bring in discussion the lower tournaments. Maybe this is the reason some challenger tournaments are disappearing from the calendar. And the low prize money also explains why players chose to play in their countries 90% of the season. For instance in itf tournaments in South Africa or Asia EVERYTIME there are the same and only players who sign in which is boring and not good for the game
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:44 PM   #50
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

futures is a starting out level of tennis , any top level player should breeze threw futures and Challengers , but for the journeyman it is tough to make a living from tennis . That,s just the way it is . Players that can compete at Futures tend to get by , when I say compete I mean someone that has a chance of winning a few titles at that level . Players develope at different stages of their career . You should not find it easy to make a living from tennis if your not even good enough to play yourself into form on the futures. It would kind of make a mockery of the term " Tennis Pro " . I am sure there are many " Semi Pro,s " playing futures . I even know someone that takes 6 month contracts as a Coach to fund himself playing .
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:44 PM   #51
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agrajag View Post
I am sure he is a very good player, but if he can't make a living out of it, then he is NOT a professional.
Problem is, one reason why he's not making a living out of it is because the Powers of tennis have denied it from him. Challenger prize money has been largely stale for DECADES. By contrast, Grand Slam prize money has increased tenfold over last 25 years. This mean that absolute top is making more and more money, at the expense of rank & file players.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:19 PM   #52
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjurra View Post
Yes, Turkey is a good example of how it should be but that concept isn't very common, is it?
actually not, but it can't be like that in more places (maybe they could do smth like that per continent though), as it would mean too many tournaments at the same time and a huge group of people making the same points, while some would be more deserved than others (based on stronger fields), while the points would be the same.

I believe Turkey has been chosen for several reasons - Geographically they are between two continents, the weather is warm or at least playable outdoors all year long, it's a big country with many international and intercontinental airports, it's relatively cheap to easily sustain a normal life out of a relatively low base of results (prize money), it is very welcoming for all kinds of guests from anywhere in the world, etc., so it does have a lot of perks for this decision of the ITF.

Not many other countries could meet such criteria, actually i believe no other country in the world can.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:28 PM   #53
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timariot View Post
Problem is, one reason why he's not making a living out of it is because the Powers of tennis have denied it from him. Challenger prize money has been largely stale for DECADES. By contrast, Grand Slam prize money has increased tenfold over last 25 years. This mean that absolute top is making more and more money, at the expense of rank & file players.
Telegraphic style, coz of repeating constantly -

the pros have doubled during the last 25 years.

Ivo Karlovic would play until 45yo if possible to make a living at Futures.

5 more years of Karlovic career means around 20 young guys struggling more.

No one would retire ever if they make a living off futures, they'd just win a round here and one there at the expense of younger talented guys losing motivation.

Tenfold the money going to TAs for development of good juniors.


We have to chose - either we give the money to develop young players through the TAs, or we cut the TAs, give the money to old vultures and have the pro tour reduced to 500 guys in 10 years, then we can kiss the sport goodbye after 5 more.

Please choose..
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:35 PM   #54
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timariot View Post
Problem is, one reason why he's not making a living out of it is because the Powers of tennis have denied it from him. Challenger prize money has been largely stale for DECADES. By contrast, Grand Slam prize money has increased tenfold over last 25 years. This mean that absolute top is making more and more money, at the expense of rank & file players.
Fitzpatrick has only ever played in five challengers. He lost in qualifying on four occasions and lost in the first round (as a wild card) of the other one.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:49 PM   #55
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timariot View Post
Problem is, one reason why he's not making a living out of it is because the Powers of tennis have denied it from him. Challenger prize money has been largely stale for DECADES. By contrast, Grand Slam prize money has increased tenfold over last 25 years. This mean that absolute top is making more and more money, at the expense of rank & file players.
That is because the grand slams make even more money than they used to. My guess is that challengers and futures haven't seen the same increase.

Choosing tennis as your carreer is just like starting up on your own. A few become millionaires, some manage to make a decent living, most fail. Obviously, luck is involved, but talent usually prevails.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:17 PM   #56
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

It's kinda refreshing to have some reasonable posters around.

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Old 01-23-2013, 08:31 PM   #57
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

This is a tale told by a guy who isn't honest enough with himself. He's playing UK Futures but not getting anywhere which ought to tell him something. Futures aren't intended as anything other than a stepping stone, to sort out the wheat from the chaff. No player ought to adopt a mindset that he is entitled to make a living from futures and, no, tennis isn't a proper job. There's plenty of aspiring Hollywood wannabees eking out a living as waiters.

If you want to make it in tennis, Futures are a stage you pass through as quickly as possible. It's a selection process, not the civil service or a crutch to finance a handful of summers.

There's plenty of well paid playing jobs in German team tennis or even UK tennis if you're good enough and driven enough to put up with it all. That's not an easy ride either coz you have to perform. Tennis is like that, I'm afraid.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:55 PM   #58
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agrajag View Post
That is because the grand slams make even more money than they used to. My guess is that challengers and futures haven't seen the same increase.
That's right. Now here's a billion dollar (literally) question:

All that money which the Slams earn, where does it go?

Not too many people know the answer. Even fewer are willing to say it out aloud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agrajag View Post
Choosing tennis as your carreer is just like starting up on your own. A few become millionaires, some manage to make a decent living, most fail. Obviously, luck is involved, but talent usually prevails.
However, if you make the sport unattractive for athletes, then you won't get much talent. Federer nearly chose soccer over tennis.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:59 PM   #59
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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Tenfold the money going to TAs for development of good juniors.
Rubbish. Tennis associations were doing just fine 25 years ago with fraction of the money they had.

In fact, the return which "rich" associations get for the money - in form of new, promising players - is downright terrible.
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:39 AM   #60
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

Not true.

/thread
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