Are modern racquets and strings too good? - Page 2 - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

View Poll Results: Should racquets be more regulated

Yes 19 42.22%
No 26 57.78%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

Old 01-20-2013, 04:47 PM   #16
country flag Fishnet
Banned!
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 263
Fishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Are modern racquets too good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by August View Post
In contrast, I think it should be former, not active, players who'd have a say to rules. Active players want rules to favour them, former players want rules to favour the game.
I don't think this discussion should be about active or retired players. It should be about respecting tradition.

Some other sports have imposed rules to arrest the demolition of older records because of technology alone. Tennis has embraced this demolition of its history and tradition.

Racket and string development should've been stopped by 2003/2004.
Fishnet is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 01-20-2013, 04:50 PM   #17
country flag Time Violation
Slacker
 
Time Violation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mount Sharp
Age: 35
Posts: 11,770
Time Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Are modern racquets too good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by August View Post
Active players want rules to favour them, former players want rules to favour the game.
Whoa, what a conclusion Since when the retired players have become some sort of high council of tennis elders?
__________________
“There’s so many athletes, tennis players around the world,” he continued, trying to put his life into some kind of perspective, “they want to be the best in what they do. They want to succeed. Many of them, they don’t succeed in the end. I’m fortunate to have this opportunity and succeed.”
Time Violation is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 04:52 PM   #18
country flag Fishnet
Banned!
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 263
Fishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Are modern racquets too good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
Whoa, what a conclusion Since when the retired players have become some sort of high council of tennis elders?


Like McEnroe and his weekly statements about a new best player ever.
Fishnet is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 04:57 PM   #19
country flag Time Violation
Slacker
 
Time Violation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mount Sharp
Age: 35
Posts: 11,770
Time Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Are modern racquets too good?

I'm already looking forward to the future when Gulbis, Monfils, Dolgopolov, Troicki etc. are retired and directing the trends of men's tennis
__________________
“There’s so many athletes, tennis players around the world,” he continued, trying to put his life into some kind of perspective, “they want to be the best in what they do. They want to succeed. Many of them, they don’t succeed in the end. I’m fortunate to have this opportunity and succeed.”
Time Violation is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 05:08 PM   #20
country flag HKz
Hakeem
 
HKz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mesa
Posts: 5,235
HKz has a reputation beyond reputeHKz has a reputation beyond reputeHKz has a reputation beyond reputeHKz has a reputation beyond reputeHKz has a reputation beyond reputeHKz has a reputation beyond reputeHKz has a reputation beyond reputeHKz has a reputation beyond reputeHKz has a reputation beyond reputeHKz has a reputation beyond reputeHKz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Are modern racquets too good?

Strings, not rackets
__________________
Federer / Haas / Safin / Gaudio / Kuerten / Youzhny / Nadal / Gonzalez / Ljubicic / Hewitt / Soderling / Wawrinka / Coria / Nalbandian / Kohlschreiber
HKz is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 05:08 PM   #21
country flag August
Registered User
 
August's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Back in Finland
Age: 24
Posts: 5,017
August has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Are modern racquets too good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
Whoa, what a conclusion Since when the retired players have become some sort of high council of tennis elders?
Well, my point was that tennis shouldn't be developed at terms of active players, especially when it comes to the essence of the game, what racquet and string technology has changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
I'm already looking forward to the future when Gulbis, Monfils, Dolgopolov, Troicki etc. are retired and directing the trends of men's tennis
Had '70s players stopped racquet development, maybe those guys would've never got to ATP.
__________________
My blog: August on Sports
My twitter: @AugustOnSports


Stan Wawrinka
2014 Australian Open Champion | 2014 Monte Carlo Masters Champion

Jo-Wilfried Tsonga
2008 Paris Masters Champion | 2014 Toronto Masters Champion
August is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 05:09 PM   #22
country flag Pratik
Registered User
 
Pratik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Rheinland-Pfalz
Posts: 8,999
Pratik has a reputation beyond reputePratik has a reputation beyond reputePratik has a reputation beyond reputePratik has a reputation beyond reputePratik has a reputation beyond reputePratik has a reputation beyond reputePratik has a reputation beyond reputePratik has a reputation beyond reputePratik has a reputation beyond reputePratik has a reputation beyond reputePratik has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Are modern racquets too good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by August View Post
Racquet technology is sometimes mentioned in discussions about court speed and death of S&V. But what do you think, are modern racquets too good?

I really don't know too much about last century's tennis. But at least in '90s, fastest surfaces had turned into acefests. And I think a reason to that was improved racquets. They enabled faster and more accurate serving. On the other hand, better racquets have obviously also helped in defence. If you are just able to hit the ball, you can control the shot better than previously. A common explanation for the extinction of S&V is that with modern racquets, it's easier to hit a good return and pass the guy on net.

If the racquets were worse, it would favour more skilled players. It would be more difficult for ballbashers to blow their opponents off the court. But it would be more difficult also for grinders, it would be difficult to return shots from defending position. And who would win? The creative shotmakers. For example, only the most skilled players would be able to serve so well that they would be able to come to net. The opponent could return the serve, but it would be difficult for him to pass the guy on net.

So, if they could go the former racquets, I think tennis would be more about skills. Fastest surfaces wouldn't anymore be acefests but S&V-fests. Clay would still favour good defending, but it would be easier to beat a defence-only player with skillful playing. I'd love if they could go to '80s racquets but I guess that would be too radical a move. It would be too difficult for players to adapt to that and big crowd wouldn't necessarily understand going backwards. But at least I wouldn't like the racquets to improve anymore, better racquets mean hitting requires less skill. And I don't think regulating racquets wouldn't be against the spirit of sport. For example, they regulate skis in Alpine skiing, and sometimes make regulation changes. Why couldn't tennis also regulate racquets more? Of course, racquet manufacturers wouldn't like that. Nowadays racquets are sold by their quality, spec racquets would be sold e.g. by their paintjob.
I agree with practically everything you said there. But, that is not a strong enough reason to not let technology play its part. In any racquet sport(an argument could be made for any sport), with time the sport is going to be forced to evolve. As you said, better equipment facilitates better serving, better shot making, better defence etc. Better tennis, which is what everyone wants. Some of the hardcore tennis fans may want to see a technically better game and a more 'skillful' player(over defence and ball-bashing), but that is not what the average fan wants. The sport survives on the big crowd, not merely us hardcore fans. The average fan would not find the wooden racquet game very interesting. I don't really know anything about skiing, so I won't comment on that. But practically every sport evolves with time. The cricket bat, badminton/squash/table tennis racquet, football, etc. I would even go so far as to say that it would be foolish to not let technology take its due course.

The point you(and me for that matter) need to face is that the traditional definition of skill no longer holds. Good defence(a.k.a. grinding) is a skill now. Using the racquet technology to your advantage is a very important skill. If Nadal is able to use better strings to his advantage by generating more topspin than most players are used to, it is a skill which gives him an advantage over the others. It would be pointless to say that 'he couldn't do the same with a wooden racquet'.

If used in the right way, these better racquets actually expand the meaning of creative shot making. There are wider variety of shots possible now than with the wooden rackets.

While better racquets does mean hitting well requires lesser skill(in the traditional definition of skill), it does not mean the value of skill is lost. Most people would agree that Federer is a very 'skillful' player. From what I understand, the racquet he uses is of no where near the latest technology. So 'skill' is able to do well in todays game. In general, surely a more skillful player can outperform a less skillful player even today.
Pratik is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 05:18 PM   #23
country flag Burrow
Registered User
 
Burrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,169
Burrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Are modern racquets too good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by August View Post
Racquet technology is sometimes mentioned in discussions about court speed and death of S&V. But what do you think, are modern racquets too good?

I really don't know too much about last century's tennis. But at least in '90s, fastest surfaces had turned into acefests. And I think a reason to that was improved racquets. They enabled faster and more accurate serving. On the other hand, better racquets have obviously also helped in defence. If you are just able to hit the ball, you can control the shot better than previously. A common explanation for the extinction of S&V is that with modern racquets, it's easier to hit a good return and pass the guy on net.

If the racquets were worse, it would favour more skilled players. It would be more difficult for ballbashers to blow their opponents off the court. But it would be more difficult also for grinders, it would be difficult to return shots from defending position. And who would win? The creative shotmakers. For example, only the most skilled players would be able to serve so well that they would be able to come to net. The opponent could return the serve, but it would be difficult for him to pass the guy on net.

So, if they could go the former racquets, I think tennis would be more about skills. Fastest surfaces wouldn't anymore be acefests but S&V-fests. Clay would still favour good defending, but it would be easier to beat a defence-only player with skillful playing. I'd love if they could go to '80s racquets but I guess that would be too radical a move. It would be too difficult for players to adapt to that and big crowd wouldn't necessarily understand going backwards. But at least I wouldn't like the racquets to improve anymore, better racquets mean hitting requires less skill. And I don't think regulating racquets wouldn't be against the spirit of sport. For example, they regulate skis in Alpine skiing, and sometimes make regulation changes. Why couldn't tennis also regulate racquets more? Of course, racquet manufacturers wouldn't like that. Nowadays racquets are sold by their quality, spec racquets would be sold e.g. by their paintjob.
Do a little bit of research. The vast majority of players are either using old rackets, spanning as old as 16-17 years old or are using pro-stock rackets based on older frames.

Stringers and those who have been able to get their hands on players rackets have been able to confirm the specifications of each racket if not by eye.

Have you ever seen anyone hit the ball as hard consistently as Marat Safin? He used a PC600 from the start to finish of his career and very briefly the tgk 237.1 which he said was a mistake.
Burrow is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 05:30 PM   #24
country flag allpro
Registered User
 
allpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,067
allpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Are modern racquets too good?

racket technology hasn't changed much since the mid 80’s and early 90's. fed’s racket was introduced in 1983, and tons of pros who use head are basically playing with a painted variant of the prestige pro which came out in 1986. it's the polyester strings (luxilon) which have radically altered how the game is played, not the rackets.
allpro is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 05:33 PM   #25
country flag allpro
Registered User
 
allpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,067
allpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Are modern racquets too good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishnet View Post
Sampras was very critical of new strings back in the early 2000s.
he referred to luxilon as "cheatilon".
allpro is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 05:35 PM   #26
country flag Bobby
Registered User
 
Bobby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 1,115
Bobby has a reputation beyond reputeBobby has a reputation beyond reputeBobby has a reputation beyond reputeBobby has a reputation beyond reputeBobby has a reputation beyond reputeBobby has a reputation beyond reputeBobby has a reputation beyond reputeBobby has a reputation beyond reputeBobby has a reputation beyond reputeBobby has a reputation beyond reputeBobby has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Are modern racquets and strings too good?

Jimmy Connors' legendary Wilson T2000 is where the development should have ended.
__________________
Tennis Tipping

Singles Rank: 202
2007: QF Forest Hills CH, Turin CH, Scheveningen CH

Doubles Rank: 189
2007: W Turin CH (w/Dougie), F Scheveningen CH (w/Dougie)
Bobby is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 05:58 PM   #27
country flag August
Registered User
 
August's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Back in Finland
Age: 24
Posts: 5,017
August has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond reputeAugust has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Are modern racquets too good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pratik View Post
I agree with practically everything you said there. But, that is not a strong enough reason to not let technology play its part. In any racquet sport(an argument could be made for any sport), with time the sport is going to be forced to evolve. As you said, better equipment facilitates better serving, better shot making, better defence etc. Better tennis, which is what everyone wants. Some of the hardcore tennis fans may want to see a technically better game and a more 'skillful' player(over defence and ball-bashing), but that is not what the average fan wants. The sport survives on the big crowd, not merely us hardcore fans. The average fan would not find the wooden racquet game very interesting. I don't really know anything about skiing, so I won't comment on that. But practically every sport evolves with time. The cricket bat, badminton/squash/table tennis racquet, football, etc. I would even go so far as to say that it would be foolish to not let technology take its due course.
That's why I said "But at least I wouldn't like the racquets to improve anymore" in the OP. Going back to wooden racquets would really be not an option, it would change the modern game too much and big crowd wouldn't understand that. But freezing the racquet/string developent wouldn't have any affect to tennis' popularity. Tennis would remain just like it is, it wouldn't go backwards. And, maybe a careful regulating of racquets/strings would be possible without changing the modern tennis too much too fast. Courts were slowed down gradually, it happened by stealth for the big crowd. Similarly racquets/strings could be made worse over a longer period, and nobody would notice.

After all, I'm not sure grindfests are what the crowd wants most. Yeah, random fans prefer grindfests over acefests but I think they might equally like a "skillfest" without grinding and powerhitting but with some nice shots. But yeah, you can't change the racquets/strings and courts favouring that kind of tennis immediately, it would be a shock for the big crowd.
__________________
My blog: August on Sports
My twitter: @AugustOnSports


Stan Wawrinka
2014 Australian Open Champion | 2014 Monte Carlo Masters Champion

Jo-Wilfried Tsonga
2008 Paris Masters Champion | 2014 Toronto Masters Champion
August is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 06:00 PM   #28
country flag Burrow
Registered User
 
Burrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,169
Burrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Are modern racquets too good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by August View Post
That's why I said "But at least I wouldn't like the racquets to improve anymore" in the OP. Going back to wooden racquets would really be not an option, it would change the modern game too much and big crowd wouldn't understand that. But freezing the racquet/string developent wouldn't have any affect to tennis' popularity. Tennis would remain just like it is, it wouldn't go backwards. And, maybe a careful regulating of racquets/strings would be possible without changing the modern tennis too much too fast. Courts were slowed down gradually, it happened by stealth for the big crowd. Similarly racquets/strings could be made worse over a longer period, and nobody would notice.

After all, I'm not sure grindfests are what the crowd wants most. Yeah, random fans prefer grindfests over acefests but I think they might equally like a "skillfest" without grinding and powerhitting but with some nice shots. But yeah, you can't change the racquets/strings and courts favouring that kind of tennis immediately, it would be a shock for the big crowd.
This is pointless. Courts should be varied, not one way or the other. Just like it was.
Burrow is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 06:02 PM   #29
country flag cveks
Registered User
 
cveks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Age: 37
Posts: 1,478
cveks has a reputation beyond reputecveks has a reputation beyond reputecveks has a reputation beyond reputecveks has a reputation beyond reputecveks has a reputation beyond reputecveks has a reputation beyond reputecveks has a reputation beyond reputecveks has a reputation beyond reputecveks has a reputation beyond reputecveks has a reputation beyond reputecveks has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Are modern racquets too good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishnet View Post
So you think players today are better than Sampras, Agassi, Becker, McEnroe, etc?
they all said - that they are better.

Look at my signature.

Tennis evolved .
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzzahLovah View Post
Outstanding play on that bp. Djokovic was ahead in that point at the start.

If Berdych can't keep a double break lead I'm done with tennis.
Djokovic took set 6-4 against Berdych.

Quote:
“Does Djokovic resemble myself?” Agassi said. “No, he is even better. He defends really well, while I struggled more in that element of the game. Novak looks totally relaxed when defending, completely calm and the quality of his return is incredible. He is also extremely flexible in his game, which is facilitated by his ability to anticipate his rival’s moves. That is why I think he is a much more versatile player than I was and he is also much more athletic.”
cveks is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 06:06 PM   #30
country flag Fed fordawin
Registered User
 
Fed fordawin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,397
Fed fordawin has a reputation beyond reputeFed fordawin has a reputation beyond reputeFed fordawin has a reputation beyond reputeFed fordawin has a reputation beyond reputeFed fordawin has a reputation beyond reputeFed fordawin has a reputation beyond reputeFed fordawin has a reputation beyond reputeFed fordawin has a reputation beyond reputeFed fordawin has a reputation beyond reputeFed fordawin has a reputation beyond reputeFed fordawin has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Are modern racquets and strings too good?

What's true is that a border must be defined. I mean, let's imagine they improve the racquets in the few decades to the point you can serve 300 kph serves, then the sport will be dead.
__________________
Proud supporter of El Tio , the greatest genius alive!

Alchimists transform iron into gold. Boriiiiiing!
Movie-makers transform dreams into reality. Yeah, whatever...
El Tio transforms Dull into a multiple GS champion! Daaaaamn!

El Tio has the keys to weather, court speed, draw making, umpires' decisions and perception of time between points, top players' fatherhood, and my libido!

This signature is in no way ironic. Please don't ever let El Tio think that, for my sake!
Fed fordawin is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios