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Old 01-19-2013, 01:02 AM   #106
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Fujee View Post
At least we can thank lance in some sense for the increased transparency this thread is enabling
Yeah. It'd be more transparent though, if someone was shot at sight for caught doping
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:02 AM   #107
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

It happens, deal with it. Nothing is what it seems.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:03 AM   #108
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Fujee View Post
Nah that was the coke, not the roids
hahaha probably....borg was so zen, what was his secret?
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And, Roger Federer ranks 5th. But any problem cannot be found? is there nothing?  

Because, Djokovic, Murray, and Nadal certainly win Roger?

Even David Ferrer? (Roger 14 - 0 David)

Or, Roger loses even before QF? lol

argument.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:03 AM   #109
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Fuentes said in 2006 20% of his clients were tennis players. That's several dozen players for him alone, and he tends to only work with top sportsman.

Armstrong's dope doctor, Del Moral, was the resident doctor at a top Spanish academy for 15 years. Not some nowhere place, but the base for Safin, Safina, Errani, Ferrer and tons of others.



All sports that implement serious testing catch dopers by the bucketload, but strangely enough, tennis catches nobody.

That leaves two possibilities:

1) Tennis, which has the weakest testing in all of sport, is clean.

2) Tennis catches no-one because it's not looking.


Even a cursory overview of the current anti-doping setup shows that 2 is the case.
I do think you make a lot of sense.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:06 AM   #110
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle View Post
hahaha probably....borg was so zen, what was his secret?
camomile tea obviously...
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:15 AM   #111
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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It happens, deal with it. Nothing is what it seems.
there's no deal with drugs, unfortunately. once there and your future is certain-2 meters under the ground
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:18 AM   #112
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Although I think that that doping in tennis is possible, it's wrong to insinuate that in order to be a top player, you have to dope. Tennis is very much a finesse, strategy, and mental game (you have to be skilled in so many different areas), and is not like the strength and endurance types of sports such as cycling, baseball slugging, weightlifting or swimming. Until a major scandal hits, I prefer to attribute the success of tennis players to things other than drugs. To do otherwise just seems like sour-grapes or trolling. I'll have none of it. Please stop talking about the stupid egg as well. There are countless tools which all pro tennis players use to recover and get into shape with. Different strokes for different folks.
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And, Roger Federer ranks 5th. But any problem cannot be found? is there nothing?  

Because, Djokovic, Murray, and Nadal certainly win Roger?

Even David Ferrer? (Roger 14 - 0 David)

Or, Roger loses even before QF? lol

argument.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:20 AM   #113
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
Please do not misrepresent what I am saying just because your understanding of this topic is poor and severely biased.
I think his position is more fair and reasonable than yours. Yours is a straw man argument/fallacy.
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Originally Posted by sportstennis View Post
And, Roger Federer ranks 5th. But any problem cannot be found? is there nothing?  

Because, Djokovic, Murray, and Nadal certainly win Roger?

Even David Ferrer? (Roger 14 - 0 David)

Or, Roger loses even before QF? lol

argument.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:20 AM   #114
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle View Post
Although I think that that doping in tennis is possible, it's wrong to insinuate that in order to be a top player, you have to dope. Tennis is very much a finesse, strategy, and mental game (you have to be skilled in so many different areas), and is not like the strength and endurance types of sports such as cycling, baseball slugging, weightlifting or swimming. Until a major scandal hits, I prefer to attribute the success of tennis players to things other than drugs. To do otherwise just seems like sour-grapes or trolling. I'll have none of it. Please stop talking about the stupid egg as well. There are countless tools which all pro tennis players use to recover and get into shape with. Different strokes for different folks.
Are you saying running for 6+ hours isn't all about endurance?
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:24 AM   #115
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

two important things to keep in mind here

1) everyone loses if cycling/baseball-level of doping is discovered, atp, players and fans. lets say 6 out of top 10 are found guilty, sport will never recover. you can always find another homerun slugger to root for, and most of cyclist are anonymous anyway, but tennis is much more personable

2) it's individual sport and the circles are much smaller and tighter. no teammates to rely on silence, no team doctors, no media coverage.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:37 AM   #116
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by howyesno View Post
two important things to keep in mind here

1) everyone loses if cycling/baseball-level of doping is discovered, atp, players and fans. lets say 6 out of top 10 are found guilty, sport will never recover. you can always find another homerun slugger to root for, and most of cyclist are anonymous anyway, but tennis is much more personable

Indeed.

But the longer tennis persists with its head-in-the-sand approach, doing near no testing at all, the more the above scenario becomes an inevitability. We will get to a stage where the entire top 25 is doping, because nobody else can compete with the power and endurance.

Then when it eventually does come out, the collapse will be all the bigger. We also run the risk of the arms race that happened in cycling: lots of deaths, and a permanent tainting of the sport.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:57 AM   #117
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle View Post
I think his position is more fair and reasonable than yours. Yours is a straw man argument/fallacy.
And what would that fallacy be? That in a lucrative, highly competitive sport where physical superiority provides an advantage, and there is little in the way of doping controls, doping is likely to be rife?

Occam's razor, my friend.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:43 AM   #118
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Looner View Post
Aaand my comment was deleted...
So was mine.

And I did NOT even mention any player's name
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People need to wake up. Olderer is not winning anymore slams - neither is he going to become #1.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:46 AM   #119
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Saberq View Post
what the fuck do you on MTF know about doping huh?You know it is widespread in tennis?You know shit you can only speculate.....I was on juice for years and I will use that stuff again in a few months and trust me it cant turn a mediocre player into a Grand Slam champion.......Armstrong was better than everyone with or without it.....Like Barry Bonds.........sure they shouldn't have used it but still steroids enhance your performance they dont create it out of nothing
lol. you used to be on juice and you think you can become a GS champion by suing PED?
words cannot describe.

The difference among top cyclists or top tennis players are razor thin that PED certainly help any top cyclists/tennis players who used them.

Remember Puerta?
He was very mediocre player and yet he became GS runner-up.
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People need to wake up. Olderer is not winning anymore slams - neither is he going to become #1.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:50 AM   #120
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by MaxPower View Post
Saying EPO and blood doping gives no huge effect is //("(/!/(" retarded.


Best example I've seen is in cross country skiing where the finish team shot up EPO and blood transfusions doing a world cup and all results sky rocketed. Even have the actual blood values but then it gets too nerdy here but trust me the effect was sick. Also a spanish athlete (Mühlegg) did it during Olympics in Salt Lake City (that was on high altitude) and no other skiier, not even the world's very best and technically superior, stood a chance.

After those debacles they ruled that red blood cell count has to be measured and any skiier above a certain value was prohibited from taking part in competition. This affected those who had high blood cell counts genitically but what can you do.


Obviously it's more straightforward in sports like long distance running, cross-country skiing or cycling where they compete over long distances.


In tennis you need the skill to actually stay in rallies to benefit much from blood doping. But those who are defensivly gifted, like say Nadal, Ferrer etc. would benefit greatly from blood doping
Saberg is a moron.
Just because he used PED he thought he's an expert.

an example: chinese female swimmers during Rome 1994 world championships had really awful techniques, and yet they swept almost all gold medals if it had been not for van ALmsick and Sam Riley. PED helps. A LOT.
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People need to wake up. Olderer is not winning anymore slams - neither is he going to become #1.
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