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Old 01-19-2013, 01:12 AM   #91
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
Because there is no pressure on them to do so. 95% of tennis fans think that the current system works and that tennis is a clean sport. There is no heat on them coming from the media. Why change anything? What is there for them to gain?

Perception is more important than reality. Everyone thinks things are fine, until it becomes obvious that they're not. MLB and cycling had terrible doping regimes for years and nobody cared until the major scandals started happening. Then it became completely obvious to everyone that doping was rife, and the only way for them to recover any credibility was to get tough.

Unless high profile players are willing to come out and tell people how pathetic the system is, tennis will be exactly the same. Nothing will change until there is a major scandal, and when that happens then it will be too late. Tennis's reputation as a clean sport will be irreparably damaged.

I don't want to see that. Do you?
I think you hit the nail on the head. Sports is a business and when profits are threatened, the brand has to be protected.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:14 AM   #92
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Right, I'm sure this will not go away quietly. I just can't imagine why he would confess now and put himself under so much risk. Maybe he was offered some kind of immunity in exchange for spilling all the beans.
Why he confessed is beyond my comprehension
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Originally Posted by: Toni Nadal
Rafael has won more titles than Novak Djokovic, but speaking merely about tennis and about the game, Rafa has to be considered slightly lower than Djokovic. The Serb is such a good player that he is as close as you can get to Roger Federer
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:14 AM   #93
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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We are talking high level players and I choose not to believe in conspiracy theory because it is not logical.Those men have nothing to gain and everything to lose as we saw with Lance, their honor, their legacy, their name, you name it.
Lance only admitted or "lost" cos he had no other way out, this was again the only way he could salvage some identity and profit from his now hollow celebrity status.

Also it is illogical to refuse to believe doping was/is prevalent amongst top ranked players. It is illogical to refuse the possiblity of it happening.

My opinion, but I know it's happening. I refuse to think this sport is whiter than white. Like Pat Cash said its the perfect sport to dope in, all the intense stop starts, strength and endurance required. It is happening, don't be naive.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:17 AM   #94
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Lance only admitted or "lost" cos he had no other way out, this was again the only way he could salvage some identity and profit from his now hollow celebrity status.

Also it is illogical to refuse to believe doping was/is prevalent amongst top ranked players. It is illogical to refuse the possiblity of it happening.

My opinion, but I know it's happening. I refuse to think this sport is whiter than white. Like Pat Cash said its the perfect sport to dope in, all the intense stop starts, strength and endurance required. It is happening, don't be naive.
Now I know why McEnroe had all those explosive temper tantrums which I adored. He was juicing. The plot thickens.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:19 AM   #95
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Nah that was the coke, not the roids
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:21 AM   #96
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Fujee View Post
Lance only admitted or "lost" cos he had no other way out, this was again the only way he could salvage some identity and profit from his now hollow celebrity status.

Also it is illogical to refuse to believe doping was/is prevalent amongst top ranked players. It is illogical to refuse the possiblity of it happening.

My opinion, but I know it's happening. I refuse to think this sport is whiter than white. Like Pat Cash said its the perfect sport to dope in, all the intense stop starts, strength and endurance required. It is happening, don't be naive.
OK. Let's assume only the lower ranked players dope and PEDs are known to give great advantage. How come we only have to see top 4 guys in the end of almost every major tournament in tennis last couple of years? They dope too?
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Originally Posted by: Toni Nadal
Rafael has won more titles than Novak Djokovic, but speaking merely about tennis and about the game, Rafa has to be considered slightly lower than Djokovic. The Serb is such a good player that he is as close as you can get to Roger Federer
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:23 AM   #97
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by janko05 View Post
We are talking high level players and I choose not to believe in conspiracy theory because it is not logical.Those men have nothing to gain and everything to lose as we saw with Lance, their honor, their legacy, their name, you name it.
The risk/reward equation is very attractive in a sport with doping controls as relaxed as tennis.

You seem to be forgetting that even with the much stricter controls in cycling, Armstrong was never caught. And even though dozens of people knew what he was doing, it wasn't until years after retiring that he was finally ratted out by his teammates.

Do you really think that a tennis player is under any kind of risk? Under the current regime it is literally impossible for the ITF to catch blood dopers via testing if they are smart and don't make mistakes. Literally. Impossible. And unlike Armstrong's situation in cycling, in an individual sport you can dope with practically nobody having to know about it - just your coach, and the doctor.

Look at the few tennis players who have been caught for doping offence in tennis. In pretty much every case they were caught because of a stupid screwup - getting caught with a masking agent in their piss during a tournament, or busted transporting doping products. Conclusion - the guys who are doping without making mistakes aren't getting caught.

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Tipsy:
Tipseravic is playing the ITF's game. Focus on emphasising the frequency of testing, not the type or the effectiveness.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:25 AM   #98
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by janko05 View Post
OK. Let's assume only the lower ranked players dope and PEDs are known to give great advantage. How come we only have to see top 4 guys in the end of almost every major tournament in tennis last couple of years? They dope too?
I wouldn't be surprised. Lance proved you can insulate yourself from absolutely anything you wish within reason. Even by his own admission - which may or may not be completely true - he said the only reason he got caught was due to his 09/10 comeback, which showed considerable anomalies with his previous testing results. These incredibly rich tennis stars have access to the best doctors and PR teams in the world, all this combined with an incredibly relaxed anti doping regimen suggests at least highly possible foul play.

It may not be true, but there is probable cause to suggest otherwise.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:33 AM   #99
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
The risk/reward equation is very attractive in a sport with doping controls as relaxed as tennis.

You seem to be forgetting that even with the much stricter controls in cycling, Armstrong was never caught. And even though dozens of people knew what he was doing, it wasn't until years after retiring that he was finally ratted out by his teammates.

Do you really think that a tennis player is under any kind of risk? Under the current regime it is literally impossible for the ITF to catch blood dopers via testing if they are smart and don't make mistakes. Literally. Impossible. And unlike Armstrong's situation in cycling, in an individual sport you can dope with practically nobody having to know about it - just your coach, and the doctor.


Tipseravic is playing the ITF's game. Focus on emphasising the frequency of doping, not the type or the effectiveness.
Now I've got it. Everybody dopes, right.ITF is behind the whole scheme, right. It wouldn't suit the media and sponsors if the scheme is to be released somehow, right.
Now, it's only up to Djokovic to save the world!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by: Toni Nadal
Rafael has won more titles than Novak Djokovic, but speaking merely about tennis and about the game, Rafa has to be considered slightly lower than Djokovic. The Serb is such a good player that he is as close as you can get to Roger Federer
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:37 AM   #100
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Now, it's only up to Djokovic to save the world!
One magic egg at a time
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:42 AM   #101
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Now I've got it. Everybody dopes, right.ITF is behind the whole scheme, right. It wouldn't suit the media and sponsors if the scheme is to be released somehow, right.

Fuentes said in 2006 20% of his clients were tennis players. That's several dozen players for him alone, and he tends to only work with top sportsman.

Armstrong's dope doctor, Del Moral, was the resident doctor at a top Spanish academy for 15 years. Not some nowhere place, but the base for Safin, Safina, Errani, Ferrer and tons of others.



All sports that implement serious testing catch dopers by the bucketload, but strangely enough, tennis catches nobody.

That leaves two possibilities:

1) Tennis, which has the weakest testing in all of sport, is clean.

2) Tennis catches no-one because it's not looking.


Even a cursory overview of the current anti-doping setup shows that 2 is the case.

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Old 01-19-2013, 01:44 AM   #102
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Seriously, I don't worry much about Djokovic or Federer or the others. It's my son, whom I gave tennis racket, that worries me the most.
Now I have to introduce him into the world of drugs instead of keeping him out, apparently.
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Rafael has won more titles than Novak Djokovic, but speaking merely about tennis and about the game, Rafa has to be considered slightly lower than Djokovic. The Serb is such a good player that he is as close as you can get to Roger Federer
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:51 AM   #103
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Isn't it a bit naïve of Djokovic to believe that tennis is rigorous about doping? I don't think that makes sense...
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:53 AM   #104
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

At least we can thank lance in some sense for the increased transparency this thread is enabling
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:54 AM   #105
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Now I've got it. Everybody dopes, right.ITF is behind the whole scheme, right. It wouldn't suit the media and sponsors if the scheme is to be released somehow, right.
Now, it's only up to Djokovic to save the world!
Please do not misrepresent what I am saying just because your understanding of this topic is poor and severely biased.
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