Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc - Page 16 - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

Reply

Old 01-20-2013, 11:10 PM   #226
country flag Time Violation
Slacker
 
Time Violation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mount Sharp
Age: 35
Posts: 11,438
Time Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
Murray's comments about not enough out-of-competition tests and not enough blood tests are particularly good. That is exactly the problem with tennis and it is fantastic to hear a top player finally say it.
Yea, now everything is going to be different The main thing players need and can do is stay clean, while testing, rules and everything else is not something they can control or manage.
__________________
“There’s so many athletes, tennis players around the world,” he continued, trying to put his life into some kind of perspective, “they want to be the best in what they do. They want to succeed. Many of them, they don’t succeed in the end. I’m fortunate to have this opportunity and succeed.”
Time Violation is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 01-20-2013, 11:14 PM   #227
country flag tangerine_dream
Last dance, Andy
 
tangerine_dream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York New Englander
Posts: 25,413
tangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
Don't know if this has been posted yet. Murray and Federer call for stricter doping tests.
Stricter doping tests are like stricter gun laws, it won't stop the cheaters and criminals who are always one step ahead of the law.
__________________
"What kind of shape am I in now? Well round is a shape." said Roddick with a laugh. "I had a very detailed retirement plan, and I feel like I've met every aspect of it: a lot of golf, a lot of carbs, a lot of fried food, and some booze, occasionally — I've been completely committed ... The results have shown."


Mugs Tennis Forums
tangerine_dream is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 11:28 PM   #228
country flag Caesar1844
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,194
Caesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
Yea, now everything is going to be different The main thing players need and can do is stay clean, while testing, rules and everything else is not something they can control or manage.
The more they talk about it, the more attention it gets, and the more pressure there will be on the ATP/ITF to improve things.
Caesar1844 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 11:38 PM   #229
country flag Time Violation
Slacker
 
Time Violation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mount Sharp
Age: 35
Posts: 11,438
Time Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond reputeTime Violation has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
The more they talk about it, the more attention it gets, and the more pressure there will be on the ATP/ITF to improve things.
Well, I don't think we'll be seeing any of them scheduling regular press conferences to address the problem; answering a random interview question is probably as far as it goes.
__________________
“There’s so many athletes, tennis players around the world,” he continued, trying to put his life into some kind of perspective, “they want to be the best in what they do. They want to succeed. Many of them, they don’t succeed in the end. I’m fortunate to have this opportunity and succeed.”
Time Violation is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 11:48 PM   #230
country flag Caesar1844
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,194
Caesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond reputeCaesar1844 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
Well, I don't think we'll be seeing any of them scheduling regular press conferences to address the problem; answering a random interview question is probably as far as it goes.
I'm not asking them to schedule regular press conferences. But every time they answer a question about it honestly, there's an article in a dozen newspapers about it. And the more articles there are, the bigger a story it becomes, and the more often they'll be asked questions about it. That is a good thing.

Players who say that the system is great and it works are just helping perpetuate the ITF PR story.
Caesar1844 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 01:03 AM   #231
country flag atennisfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,957
atennisfan has a reputation beyond reputeatennisfan has a reputation beyond reputeatennisfan has a reputation beyond reputeatennisfan has a reputation beyond reputeatennisfan has a reputation beyond reputeatennisfan has a reputation beyond reputeatennisfan has a reputation beyond reputeatennisfan has a reputation beyond reputeatennisfan has a reputation beyond reputeatennisfan has a reputation beyond reputeatennisfan has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by tangerine_dream View Post
Stricter doping tests are like stricter gun laws, it won't stop the cheaters and criminals who are always one step ahead of the law.
And the solution is very lax doping control?

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
People need to wake up. Olderer is not winning anymore slams - neither is he going to become #1.
atennisfan is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 02:41 AM   #232
country flag tangerine_dream
Last dance, Andy
 
tangerine_dream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York New Englander
Posts: 25,413
tangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond reputetangerine_dream has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by atennisfan View Post
And the solution is very lax doping control?

Saying "I support stricter doping tests" is empty language. The solution is not more drug testing but smarter testing. Banning players because they took a cold medicine or smoked marijuana (mostly a depressant) but tests for blood doping is still widely ineffective pretty much makes the whole thing a farce.

They can test athletes more and more but the A-listers like Armstrong have the money and connections to stay ahead of the doping game while the B-listers get caught smoking dope during their vacation.
__________________
"What kind of shape am I in now? Well round is a shape." said Roddick with a laugh. "I had a very detailed retirement plan, and I feel like I've met every aspect of it: a lot of golf, a lot of carbs, a lot of fried food, and some booze, occasionally — I've been completely committed ... The results have shown."


Mugs Tennis Forums
tangerine_dream is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 06:30 AM   #233
country flag zebedee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 81
zebedee has a reputation beyond reputezebedee has a reputation beyond reputezebedee has a reputation beyond reputezebedee has a reputation beyond reputezebedee has a reputation beyond reputezebedee has a reputation beyond reputezebedee has a reputation beyond reputezebedee has a reputation beyond reputezebedee has a reputation beyond reputezebedee has a reputation beyond reputezebedee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

I'd add to your comment to say that the only way they will sort the problem properly is if they punish the dopers sufficiently so that the sport can see clearly that doping doesn't pay. At the moment we have quite the opposite. Doping pays big time as the rewards are huge and the testing and sanctions as near as non-existent. A proven, doped cyclist (Vino) is allowed to compete and win an Olympic gold. Great, isn't it. That must really inspire your kids.

The nonsense Djokovic comes out with about tennis being clean and that we don't need more testing or need to introduce the blood passport just leaves me speechless. How does he know the game is clean? What special knowledge does he have? Only that all players are presently testing clean? That's the only information he has. And didn't everyone in cycling pass their tests clean too, in Armstrong's case all 500 of them? The guys got to be thick to come out with something like that. Or on drugs.
zebedee is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 09:34 AM   #234
country flag philosophicalarf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,669
philosophicalarf has a reputation beyond reputephilosophicalarf has a reputation beyond reputephilosophicalarf has a reputation beyond reputephilosophicalarf has a reputation beyond reputephilosophicalarf has a reputation beyond reputephilosophicalarf has a reputation beyond reputephilosophicalarf has a reputation beyond reputephilosophicalarf has a reputation beyond reputephilosophicalarf has a reputation beyond reputephilosophicalarf has a reputation beyond reputephilosophicalarf has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by zebedee View Post
I'd add to your comment to say that the only way they will sort the problem properly is if they punish the dopers sufficiently so that the sport can see clearly that doping doesn't pay. At the moment we have quite the opposite. Doping pays big time as the rewards are huge and the testing and sanctions as near as non-existent. A proven, doped cyclist (Vino) is allowed to compete and win an Olympic gold. Great, isn't it. That must really inspire your kids.
Yep - same in the 100m, 2nd place looks like a bodybuilder and has failed a drugs test in the past, 3rd place has served a 4 year drugs ban (and now runs faster when he's supposedly clean!).

Or the top 20 fastest of all time, it's stuffed with dopers.
philosophicalarf is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 08:23 PM   #235
country flag bavaria100
Registered User
 
bavaria100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,635
bavaria100 has a reputation beyond reputebavaria100 has a reputation beyond reputebavaria100 has a reputation beyond reputebavaria100 has a reputation beyond reputebavaria100 has a reputation beyond reputebavaria100 has a reputation beyond reputebavaria100 has a reputation beyond reputebavaria100 has a reputation beyond reputebavaria100 has a reputation beyond reputebavaria100 has a reputation beyond reputebavaria100 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski View Post
I doubt it.

Transporting bags of frozen blood to Australia for example, sounds logistically improbable to me.
One actually doesn't have to take the risk of smuggling frozen blood through customs to be able to blood-dope during the Australian Open. Nowadays, doping doctors don't work alone anymore. Instead, they tend to command a huge doping network with straw men (other doctors) located in all the major parts/cities in the world. So, if a tennis player wants to dope during the AO, all they have to do is take a little trip to Australia in December to meet up with a doctor and have their blood extracted. Then, when the tournament starts in January, they have the now oxygenated blood delivered to their hotel room and nobody will have noticed a damn thing.

Victor Conte is right. Doping is as easy as stealing candy from a baby.
__________________
Mirnyi | Maria K. | Ginepri | Kim C. | Verdasco | Elena D. | Dimitrov | Aga R. | Haas | Ana I. | Tsonga | Sabine L. | Del Potro | Julia G.

29 years ago, one young man conquered the world of Formula 1: Ayrton Senna. You´ll never be forgotten!!!

2012: Year of my TT Comeback
Singles – W: Sarasota, Lexington, Rennes, Challenger Tour Finals F: Orleans SF: Indian Harbour QF: Caloundra, Busan, Vancouver, Istanbul, Medellin, Champaign Doubles – W: Meknes (w/gulzhan) F: Burnie (w/Vilnietė), Sarasota (w/Igorche), Busan (w/Cheeky Chick), St. Remy (w/BrazilTBfan) SF: Indian Harbour (w/Broseghini), Istanbul (w/Mahqz) Won "Challenger Player of the Year" Award
bavaria100 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 08:43 PM   #236
country flag Fishnet
Banned!
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 263
Fishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by tangerine_dream View Post
Saying "I support stricter doping tests" is empty language. The solution is not more drug testing but smarter testing. Banning players because they took a cold medicine or smoked marijuana (mostly a depressant) but tests for blood doping is still widely ineffective pretty much makes the whole thing a farce.

They can test athletes more and more but the A-listers like Armstrong have the money and connections to stay ahead of the doping game while the B-listers get caught smoking dope during their vacation.
Perfect.
Fishnet is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 08:45 PM   #237
country flag Fishnet
Banned!
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 263
Fishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond reputeFishnet has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavaria100 View Post
One actually doesn't have to take the risk of smuggling frozen blood through customs to be able to blood-dope during the Australian Open. Nowadays, doping doctors don't work alone anymore. Instead, they tend to command a huge doping network with straw men (other doctors) located in all the major parts/cities in the world. So, if a tennis player wants to dope during the AO, all they have to do is take a little trip to Australia in December to meet up with a doctor and have their blood extracted. Then, when the tournament starts in January, they have the now oxygenated blood delivered to their hotel room and nobody will have noticed a damn thing.

Victor Conte is right. Doping is as easy as stealing candy from a baby.
And how bad is it now pretty much EVERY miraculous recovery in 2 days or less has become extremely suspicious?
Fishnet is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 09:27 PM   #238
country flag latso
Registered User
 
latso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 37
Posts: 8,357
latso has a reputation beyond reputelatso has a reputation beyond reputelatso has a reputation beyond reputelatso has a reputation beyond reputelatso has a reputation beyond reputelatso has a reputation beyond reputelatso has a reputation beyond reputelatso has a reputation beyond reputelatso has a reputation beyond reputelatso has a reputation beyond reputelatso has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

latso is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 09:35 PM   #239
country flag Tiebreak100
Registered User
 
Tiebreak100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,181
Tiebreak100 has a reputation beyond reputeTiebreak100 has a reputation beyond reputeTiebreak100 has a reputation beyond reputeTiebreak100 has a reputation beyond reputeTiebreak100 has a reputation beyond reputeTiebreak100 has a reputation beyond reputeTiebreak100 has a reputation beyond reputeTiebreak100 has a reputation beyond reputeTiebreak100 has a reputation beyond reputeTiebreak100 has a reputation beyond reputeTiebreak100 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Bbc 5 live just did a small segment on possible doping in tennis. They had a guy on from the tennis anti doping agency who said they hope to possibly introduce blood passports by the end of 2013. Good interview, they pressed the guy on a few areas of concern. A link should be available later.
Tiebreak100 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 09:44 PM   #240
country flag GugaF1
Registered User
 
GugaF1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,127
GugaF1 has a reputation beyond reputeGugaF1 has a reputation beyond reputeGugaF1 has a reputation beyond reputeGugaF1 has a reputation beyond reputeGugaF1 has a reputation beyond reputeGugaF1 has a reputation beyond reputeGugaF1 has a reputation beyond reputeGugaF1 has a reputation beyond reputeGugaF1 has a reputation beyond reputeGugaF1 has a reputation beyond reputeGugaF1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by tangerine_dream View Post
Saying "I support stricter doping tests" is empty language. The solution is not more drug testing but smarter testing. Banning players because they took a cold medicine or smoked marijuana (mostly a depressant) but tests for blood doping is still widely ineffective pretty much makes the whole thing a farce.

They can test athletes more and more but the A-listers like Armstrong have the money and connections to stay ahead of the doping game while the B-listers get caught smoking dope during their vacation.
The counter argument to that would be if enough B-listers get caught they will start to close the circle on the A-listers as well. In the same example you used, Armstrong, he did not get caught by testing, but enough members of his team did and in order to help ease their punishment and having to testify under oath with perjury concerns they made an overwhelming body of evidence against Armstrong. Do you think they would have volunteered the information have they not get caught in the first place? Armstrong would not be in the position he is in today if it wasn't for nearly all of those around him getting caught.

In tennis that would be more difficult given it is not an openly team sport like cycling, but it is not as an individual sport as some people think. In my view, it is a very much group activity in many senses full of inner circles of trainers, coaches, players from certain countries who will group together and push each other. And it is no surprise that you see countries doing well in bunches usually, I mean, there you have a country with no tradition in Tennis practically never a top 20 and it start to appear players inside the top 10 2 at the same time and elsewhere close to the elite. And we have a few examples of this.

Anyway, I don't think this is a solvable problem for the time being. The public and the authorities don't care enough, the mainstream public is hypocritical due to miss information by the media that only single out the ones the sport puts to hang dry. The big public only cares when it is a big story, like Armstrong, but why don't they care and direct this attention to know how are their favorite sport anti-doping run right now. Does it have enough money to run efficiently? Does it uses cutting edge scientific methods to be effective? Does it have clear loopholes? for all of these, Tennis program would be a resounding: well below satisfactory. And if the public doesn't demand it seriously, the Sporting authorities have no reason to taint their product by screwing its big pay makers.

The only reason Armstrong really got caught also was because a US government Anti-doping agency step in and made an independent thorough investigation. And needless to say that is reported that they did approach them and offered a hefty some of money to drop it. So This will only be solvable when the public cares enough and we have a real independent and strong agency to regulate it, otherwise is just hypocrisy and PR BS.

Last edited by GugaF1 : 01-21-2013 at 09:51 PM.
GugaF1 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios