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View Poll Results: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

Ferrer in 3 10 16.95%
Ferrer in 4 19 32.20%
Ferrer in 5 6 10.17%
Nishikori in 3 3 5.08%
Nishikori in 4 8 13.56%
Nishikori in 5 13 22.03%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-18-2013, 03:31 PM   #46
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Default Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
He does. Unlike Kei, however, he does not take an offensive approach in spite of it. He wins matches by running an incredible amount of miles every match and grinding almost every point. Granted, he's the fittest player on tour with the best endurance, but that is hardly as praiseworthy.
He sits in his backhand corner and tries to open up the court with his inside out forehand, and then looks to go down the line. I don't see how that's not an offensive play. His ability to move the ball around *is* why he is able to exploit the movement problems of players like Del Potro, who would just overpower him if he stuck the ball in the middle of the court.
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:32 PM   #47
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Default Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
He does. Unlike Kei, however, he does not take an offensive approach in spite of it. He wins matches by running an incredible amount of miles every match and grinding almost every point. Granted, he's the fittest player on tour with the best endurance, but that is hardly as praiseworthy.
You're aware of the fact that you're the only person in the world who thinks that Nishikori is an offensive player, right ?
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:39 PM   #48
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Default Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

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Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
He sits in his backhand corner and tries to open up the court with his inside out forehand, and then looks to go down the line. I don't see how that's not an offensive play. His ability to move the ball around *is* why he is able to exploit the movement problems of players like Del Potro, who would just overpower him if he stuck the ball in the middle of the court.
He only attacks when he gets short balls. The reason he does well against Del Potro is his ability to redirect power and change the direction of the ball during rallies. This forces Del Potro into awkward positions more than in any other matchup and to often get rushed/hit shots off balance. He's hardly being offensive, he just has the right skillset to neutralize Del Potro's default gameplan. Against players who give him angles instead of sheer power he is usually exposed (Federer, Davydenko...).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustavo Kuerten View Post
You're aware of the fact that you're the only person in the world who thinks that Nishikori is an offensive player, right ?
I'm not even the only person in this thread who thinks that, let alone in the entire world. After AO or something, I'll start a thread/poll on the subject and we shall see what the MTF consensus is.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:22 PM   #49
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Default Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
He only attacks when he gets short balls. The reason he does well against Del Potro is his ability to redirect power and change the direction of the ball during rallies. This forces Del Potro into awkward positions more than in any other matchup and to often get rushed/hit shots off balance. He's hardly being offensive, he just has the right skillset to neutralize Del Potro's default gameplan. Against players who give him angles instead of sheer power he is usually exposed (Federer, Davydenko...).
OK, watch this point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoVtJz77b6s#t=3m16s

Ferrer hits a deep return. He follows up with an aggressive inside-in forehand that lands on the line. Nadal is forced to hit a short ball and Ferrer steps in and finishes off Nadal with an inside out forehand. If Ferrer wasn't aggressive on the return and then on the forehand, he wouldn't have had the short ball to put away.

Watch the start of the video and you'll see Ferrer hit a clean backhand return winner, an inside out forehand winner (set up by a deep backhand) and another inside out forehand winner (set up by the inside in forehand). Oh, and then he does it again and finishes at the net.

If Ferrer had just sat back and rallied in these points, Nadal would have destroyed him.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:30 PM   #50
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Default Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

Nishikori in 5. It will be a long and intense match.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:43 PM   #51
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Default Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
OK, watch this point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoVtJz77b6s#t=3m16s

Ferrer hits a deep return. He follows up with an aggressive inside-in forehand that lands on the line. Nadal is forced to hit a short ball and Ferrer steps in and finishes off Nadal with an inside out forehand. If Ferrer wasn't aggressive on the return and then on the forehand, he wouldn't have had the short ball to put away.

Watch the start of the video and you'll see Ferrer hit a clean backhand return winner, an inside out forehand winner (set up by a deep backhand) and another inside out forehand winner (set up by the inside in forehand). Oh, and then he does it again and finishes at the net.

If Ferrer had just sat back and rallied in these points, Nadal would have destroyed him.
This kind of proves my point though. He knows he needs to really force his shots against Nadal (especially on clay) since trying to outgrind Nadal on clay is an exercise in futility but for how long can he really keep it up? Not very long, he always ends up reverting to his typical grinding (same vs Federer, against whom he sometimes tries to start more aggressively). It's not that he's never aggressive, but his default mode is defense for sure. He wins matches/tournaments by retrieving balls no one else would and frustrating/outlasting his opponents, not by blasting opponents off the court with his offensive play.

Kei is much closer to Davydenko in terms of style than he is to Ferrer on the other hand - although not exactly the same of course. In fact, his defensive shotmaking is the weakest aspect of his game after the serve (a fact that is fully exposed in some matchups where he can't dictate off the baseline and is forced to defend - most notably Federer and Del Potro) so he'd never get away with playing like Ferrer.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:46 PM   #52
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Default Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

Lenders, how about renewing our avatar bet on this match?
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:50 PM   #53
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Default Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

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Lenders, how about renewing our avatar bet on this match?
Nah. In normal conditions, I'd take it but Kei has been struggling with his knee since Brisbane so everything is possible here. Some other time though.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:53 PM   #54
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Default Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

I love kei's game style.. but ferrer is in his prime now.. he'll destroy Kei mostly ..just like he did today
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:06 PM   #55
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Default Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

Ferrer in 4. With Nadal out, I think he'll want to convince why he should be in the top 4. Wouldn't want to leave the tournament early to take a hit at his rep. Looks to be like a pretty even match.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:27 PM   #56
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Default Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

I agree with those who say this is the match of the R4, or at least the most intriguing on Sunday.
I'd like to see Kei winning it, but my prediction is Ferrer in 4.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:07 PM   #57
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Default Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

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It's funny that medical issues are a legitimate reason to dismiss any of Ferrer's victories, but you seem to overlook the fact that when Kei beat David "as a youth", David was having some major personal issues and possibly a big depression, and that it was the beginning of a long slump for him.
Okay, I'll bite. What was Ferrer going through?

And when did I ever say that medical issues would dismiss Ferrer's victory? I said they are a legitimate concern for Kei going forward as he took an MTO in yesterday's match while in the lead (meaning he obviously didn't need to play dirty).

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The 2012 Olympic encounter would be a better reference, but I don't agree that Ferrer was "in form"...
Of course you don't.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:13 PM   #58
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Default Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

Kei should win it to remain among the few outside top 4 with a positive H2H against Ferrer.

Yeah, as someone said, Kei is Jap and that's why I like him. Jap is Manga. Manga is cool. Jap is cool. Kei is cool.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:15 PM   #59
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Default Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

Hopefully the better player will win, meaning Ferrer.

Since it seems to annoy a lot of people so much that he gets far in all his tournament, I will happily watch him win 99% of his matches with a massive grin on my face.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:09 PM   #60
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Default Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
This kind of proves my point though. He knows he needs to really force his shots against Nadal (especially on clay) since trying to outgrind Nadal on clay is an exercise in futility but for how long can he really keep it up? Not very long, he always ends up reverting to his typical grinding (same vs Federer, against whom he sometimes tries to start more aggressively). It's not that he's never aggressive, but his default mode is defense for sure. He wins matches/tournaments by retrieving balls no one else would and frustrating/outlasting his opponents, not by blasting opponents off the court with his offensive play.
Well, but what is Ferrer's 'normal' game?

I mean he is always on the baseline, and he is always putting the ball back very deep, while tending to sit in his backhand corner. These are all things that favor stepping in and hitting inside-in and inside-out forehands to get opponents out of position (as you see in the video). That's not out of Ferrer's comfort zone, that's what his game is.

When he plays Nadal he has to redline his game because Nadal is better offensively AND defensively (on clay anyway). That means he starts to make mistakes and loses the mental battle, but he still plays pretty much the same. Even in the FO '12 semi, he was still trying to hit through Nadal; he just wasn't powerful enough to do it.

Ferrer will never be able to blast opponents off the court, because he doesn't have the weapons to do so. But you seem to ignore all those points when Ferrer's plan is to move forward gradually into the court.
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