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Old 01-17-2013, 06:09 PM   #61
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Default Re: Del Potro - When Will The Hype Stop?

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Still waiting for one of the 'haters' to reply to my question.
Marat Safin reached the Australian Open final of 2004 having been injured the entire 2003. He tried to play multiple times injured and it didn't work, so it's perfectly comparable.

Ivanisevic did too. Philippoussis and Haas reached the top 10 again. There's probably more.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:14 PM   #62
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Default Re: Del Potro - When Will The Hype Stop?

Leg injury or not Coria came up with the goods in the clay season of 2005 and gave his all. Young Nadal was tested to the limit and withstood Coria's brilliance. Corretja and Costa were handled by 16 year old Nadal. I wouldn't mattered if he played them at RG. He dominated everyone.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:18 PM   #63
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Default Re: Del Potro - When Will The Hype Stop?

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Marat Safin reached the Australian Open final of 2004 having been injured the entire 2003. He tried to play multiple times injured and it didn't work, so it's perfectly comparable.
Marat is definitely an example of a great comeback, but fortunately he didn't need surgery then. In fact, undergoing a surgical procedure on his knee in 2005 was the beginning of the end for him, struggled to play at a high level consistently after that.

Players who undergo major surgeries are never the same again, in the last decade we have Coria, Haas and Hewitt as prime examples. That said, my question was also out of curiosity, I might be missing someone who had an equally/more successful comeback from surgery than Juan.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:20 PM   #64
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Default Re: Del Potro - When Will The Hype Stop?

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
His improvements from the Olympics onwards have given him a platform to build on and he looks game for it.

The likely quarter final rematch with Andy should be sensational.

BTW which burro said Ivanisevic won a weak slam? Fast grass, high quality field (Rafter, Agassi, Sampras, Federer, Henman, Roddick, Hewitt, Escude, Schalken, Rusedski, Safin) but yeah that's a shit field.
please man awful W that year when Ivanisevic won
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:30 PM   #65
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Default Re: Del Potro - When Will The Hype Stop?

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Marat is definitely an example of a great comeback, but fortunately he didn't need surgery then. In fact, undergoing a surgical procedure on his knee in 2005 was the beginning of the end for him, struggled to play at a high level consistently after that.

Players who undergo major surgeries are never the same again, in the last decade we have Coria, Haas and Hewitt as prime examples. That said, my question was also out of curiosity, I might be missing someone who had an equally/more successful comeback from surgery than Juan.
I know he didn't have surgery, but it's comparable to me because the wrist is arguably the joint in which repercussions least occur. Del Potro has a genetic disadvantage in the way of having some sort of condition which results in weakness in both wrists. It's not the surgery that has resulted in Del Potro's poor form. He came back nowhere near as fit as he was when he left, there is no excuse for that. Unlike a lower limb surgery, wrist injuries do not inhibit cardiovascular training.

Safin did not have surgery on his knee in 2005. Tarpischev initially spoke out and for some reason got it completely wrong.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:32 PM   #66
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Default Re: Del Potro - When Will The Hype Stop?

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Originally Posted by Lemon Water View Post
Leg injury or not Coria came up with the goods in the clay season of 2005 and gave his all. Young Nadal was tested to the limit and withstood Coria's brilliance. Corretja and Costa were handled by 16 year old Nadal. I wouldn't mattered if he played them at RG. He dominated everyone.
Old and injured Corretja defeated 16 year old Nadal, so not sure where you're going with that.

And you have no idea how those matches would have turned out during their respective primes, so it's nothing but bias and laziness to presume as much.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:43 PM   #67
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Default Re: Del Potro - When Will The Hype Stop?

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I know he didn't have surgery, but it's comparable to me because the wrist is arguably the joint in which repercussions least occur. Del Potro has a genetic disadvantage in the way of having some sort of condition which results in weakness in both wrists. It's not the surgery that has resulted in Del Potro's poor form. He came back nowhere near as fit as he was when he left, there is no excuse for that. Unlike a lower limb surgery, wrist injuries do not inhibit cardiovascular training.

Safin did not have surgery on his knee in 2005. Tarpischev initially spoke out and for some reason got it completely wrong.
Delpo's fitness was never a strength, he actually missed out on a chance to have a 2-Slam season in 2009 because of his horrible fitness in the RG semis vs Federer. For a guy as reliant on power as Del Potro, the wrist is all the more important. When he came back, he was mostly getting blown off the court by the top guys, he only really made it a contest with Nadal, who's a good matchup for him anyway. In 2009, he had a 5-5 record against Fed, Nadal and Djokovic (2-2 in Slams) and won a Slam as a 20yo, that is a pretty impressive record: surgery not only had physical effects but also derailed his momentum big time and made him lose a key development year. When he returned, he was pretty much back to the drawing board and took a relatively long time to get confidence back and power in his wrist. He also kept getting minor injuries afterwards, making the comeback even more difficult.

That's why I used 'surgical procedure' instead of surgery. I was quite young at the time and had no Internet access so couldn't really fully grasp what was going on, but I remember reading it wasn't an actual surgery but a minor procedure. Have tried to find out sometimes what it was actually, but to no avail.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:56 PM   #68
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Default Re: Del Potro - When Will The Hype Stop?

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Delpo's fitness was never a strength, he actually missed out on a chance to have a 2-Slam season in 2009 because of his horrible fitness in the RG semis vs Federer. For a guy as reliant on power as Del Potro, the wrist is all the more important. When he came back, he was mostly getting blown off the court by the top guys, he only really made it a contest with Nadal, who's a good matchup for him anyway. In 2009, he had a 5-5 record against Fed, Nadal and Djokovic (2-2 in Slams) and won a Slam as a 20yo, that is a pretty impressive record: surgery not only had physical effects but also derailed his momentum big time and made him lose a key development year. When he returned, he was pretty much back to the drawing board and took a relatively long time to get confidence back and power in his wrist. He also kept getting minor injuries afterwards, making the comeback even more difficult.

That's why I used 'surgical procedure' instead of surgery. I was quite young at the time and had no Internet access so couldn't really fully grasp what was going on, but I remember reading it wasn't an actual surgery but a minor procedure. Have tried to find out sometimes what it was actually, but to no avail.
It's irrelevant whether or not it was a strength. He was very mobile for a man of 198cm and if he wasn't, he'd never have been able to compete at the level he did. His movement made many shots possible that are now no longer possible. He moved particularly well out wide on the backhand and could solidly retrieve with interest going cross court. Now that his fitness has dropped (I'm talking agility, flexibility and his CV is alarmingly poor) he is unable to make balls that he did in the past and going 2 hours plus into a match shouldn't be a problem for a 24 year old tennis player, but as a result of his CV endurance, the rest of his physical attributes deteriorate and he is reliant on pure ball striking which makes him vulnerable to both attacking players and players who are defensively strong.

And the time off perhaps derailed progress, not necessarily the surgery itself. And power does not come from the wrist at all. If his wrist hadn't healed 100% there was no way Del Potro was stepping back onto court like he did early in 2010.

Yes, and why do you think he kept getting injured? His fitness levels were and seemingly from what I've seen are still not what they were in 2009 making him far more susceptible to injury, on top of the fact that he was always going to be susceptible to injury being a tall man with long levers.

There was a lot of talk and 95% of it was false. Safin never received any surgical treatment whatsoever. The only procedure he endured was rehabilitation as it turned out to be chronic tendinitis of the right knee. Afterwards he was a shadow of his former self and could barely move to the forehand wing (amongst other problems).
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:57 PM   #69
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Default Re: Del Potro - When Will The Hype Stop?

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stop posting shit.......Nole and Roger are not fast court spec......
what????? it`s a joke no??????

now they are clay specialists???

anyway , burrow don`t waste your time with some nadal`s fans , they belive that the tennis started with nadal or federer.

corretja had a positive h2h against nadal in clay for example.

coria with physicall problems forced nadal to the limits and gaudio had a 3-3 against nadal on clay.

he never faced peak moya or ferrero ( and El Mosquito beated nadal in rome) , or great clay courts specialists like kuerten , muster , vilas and others.

this era is weak on clay , that is the reality.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:19 PM   #70
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Default Re: Del Potro - When Will The Hype Stop?

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what????? it`s a joke no??????

now they are clay specialists???

anyway , burrow don`t waste your time with some nadal`s fans , they belive that the tennis started with nadal or federer.

corretja had a positive h2h against nadal in clay for example.

coria with physicall problems forced nadal to the limits and gaudio had a 3-3 against nadal on clay.

he never faced peak moya or ferrero ( and El Mosquito beated nadal in rome) , or great clay courts specialists like kuerten , muster , vilas and others.

this era is weak on clay , that is the reality.

Nadal on clay is better than anyone who ever played the game..........the end
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:23 PM   #71
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Default Re: Del Potro - When Will The Hype Stop?

I say it stops in 3 rounds, when he meets a far superior player.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:28 PM   #72
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Default Re: Del Potro - When Will The Hype Stop?

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I say it stops in 3 rounds, when he meets a far superior player.
seems to be the normal course of things
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:34 PM   #73
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Default Re: Del Potro - When Will The Hype Stop?

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Originally Posted by Burrow View Post
It's irrelevant whether or not it was a strength. He was very mobile for a man of 198cm and if he wasn't, he'd never have been able to compete at the level he did. His movement made many shots possible that are now no longer possible. He moved particularly well out wide on the backhand and could solidly retrieve with interest going cross court. Now that his fitness has dropped (I'm talking agility, flexibility and his CV is alarmingly poor) he is unable to make balls that he did in the past and going 2 hours plus into a match shouldn't be a problem for a 24 year old tennis player, but as a result of his CV endurance, the rest of his physical attributes deteriorate and he is reliant on pure ball striking which makes him vulnerable to both attacking players and players who are defensively strong.

And the time off perhaps derailed progress, not necessarily the surgery itself. And power does not come from the wrist at all. If his wrist hadn't healed 100% there was no way Del Potro was stepping back onto court like he did early in 2010.

Yes, and why do you think he kept getting injured? His fitness levels were and seemingly from what I've seen are still not what they were in 2009 making him far more susceptible to injury, on top of the fact that he was always going to be susceptible to injury being a tall man with long levers.

There was a lot of talk and 95% of it was false. Safin never received any surgical treatment whatsoever. The only procedure he endured was rehabilitation as it turned out to be chronic tendinitis of the right knee. Afterwards he was a shadow of his former self and could barely move to the forehand wing (amongst other problems).
He is still very mobile for his height though, he definitely moves and defends much better than any other 195cm player at the moment, although it's arguable he might have lost a step. His endurance was always an issue, I actually look forward to see if it has improved for 2013.

Time off obviously derailed his progress; even if he hadn't had surgery, losing a full year at such a key stage would always set him back greatly, but the surgery itself also played a big role as well. His wrist was obviously fully recovered when he returned but his confidence was affected as it'd be expected. The point is he is doing pretty great since he came back: he went 48-18 in 2011 with two titles, no Slam QF, 65-17 in 2012 with 4 titles and was within a whisker of making final in 2 big events (Olympics and WTF). He's on the upswing and judging by his first few matches of 2013 he seems to be still improving. He's only 24 and even after spending one year off the tour and having surgery he's still much better than all of the so-called 'young talents', there are about 4 players in the world who are clearly better than him at this moment in time and he's making strides against them too (2 wins over Federer, one over Nole in late 2012).

People who don't understand why he's hyped are either haters or have very short memory. Juan is one of the few players on tour at the moment who has won a Slam and has the potential to win another one, that's why he's 'hyped'.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:39 PM   #74
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Default Re: Del Potro - When Will The Hype Stop?

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noletards in denial, no surprise there
This is a bit of an unfair comment, a lot of Djokovic fans on this forum are very fair overall and on this subject (JMDP). It's very harsh to equate the vitriol spewed by some tards and gloryhunters to the opinion of the entire fanbase. In fact, quite a few here are both Nole and Delpo fans
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:40 PM   #75
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Default Re: Del Potro - When Will The Hype Stop?

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Nadal on clay is better than anyone who ever played the game..........the end
that is not a great argument...

he can be the best over clay , but if the competitios would be more dangerous with guys like borg or vilas , muster , kuerten and many others maybe his archivements would be not so big , at least in masters1000 or another toorunaments.

if guys like isner was capable to forced nadal to 5 sets in clay or soderling defeated him , guys like the best moya ,ferrero or kuerten no???
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