[Dr.Slice]

I loved it how on the WTA tards forum, one fool claimed that out of 100 games against Davydenko, Serena could probably win about 10 times

Originally Posted by stebs

Do you really think so? Serena Williams could surely win games against just about any male tennis player.

She would struggle to win points, let alone games. I would love to see Rafa or Djoker take on Serena on clay, that would be really funny to see.

Originally Posted by producer88

Yet you have no answers to the videos I posted breakdown Serena serve, and why it's respect. BTW I love how ESPN Sports Science point out that Serena 2nd serve average was faster than Murray's during Wimbledon.

1) Men actually play with spin too, they don't go for power on the 2nd serve. Women lack that ability.

Originally Posted by producer88

Last time I checked the Hopman Cup was an actual event players wanted to win, especially Novak in his home crowd.

Yeah, Novak's home ground in Perth. LOL.

I'm not saying Serena could compete against Novak or any Top 200, but she aced him twice, and if you didn't want to count the first one that's fine, but she did ace him again, and he didn't look happy by his body language facing the wall with his head down.

That's it. She aced him twice in a match. Yeah, that will win her games. Even Wozniacki aced Fish, so?

Originally Posted by producer88

I don't think my point is coming across. What I'm trying to say is that Serena on serve alone, especially on grass court, can win a couple of games against ATP players. She can't beat the Top 200, but she can challenge the men in the 500 or below. Remind you the story about the player that beat her I believe 6-2 or 6-1, he beat Serena when she was still a teen! She didn't reach her physical peak yet, and wasn't he ranked #201 or something closer to the Top 200?

That guy was kidding around, drinking beer, smoking and he also said he was not taking it very seriously.

I believe she's strong enough to role with the Top 400-300 guys. Which by the way, most of them will lose because of unforced errors or mental mistake. I don't know if you've seen Serena play, or how many times you've seen her play, but she's pretty fast, her footwork sometimes is horrible, but she covers the court pretty well and is really fast.

Men ranked 750 do the same she does, only much better.

Originally Posted by producer88

A drunk man according to him. Was it confirmed by another party that he was actually drunk, and if he gets drunk by 2-3 beers than really I feel bad for him, because he obviously didn't have a social life with male friends going out to sports bars and drinking like crazy.

LOL. There are people on this forum who saw the match, ask them.

Again even if he played like a level 600 player (according to him, he probably didn't want to feel embarrass with the fact a 16 YO girl won a game against him), a 16 YO Serena managed to win a game. Now she would beat a 600 or 500 player.

Beat a 500 or 600 player at what? Not tennis. Any man ranked that would easily beat Serena if he took the game seriously.

Originally Posted by producer88

Really Bammer? Haha I wonder how their H2H would be if Serena really cared for any of the 2 events she faced her in. Serena never plays GOAT during Cinnci, she actually always tanked that tournament (never cared to win it), and Hobart? Haha you should know the main issue critics had about Serena was her focus in Tennis & they hated the fact she only cared for the GS and Miami. BTW Serena Hobart was her first event back since 2004/05 I believe, and many analyst said she came back fat and slow.

Excuses, excuses. How do you know she didn't care? Do you have scientific proof of that? Was it ever confirmed by her she didn't care?

Originally Posted by producer88

But this isn't any of those sports. This is Tennis...maybe it's the fact I just seriously started to get into it, because of Rafa/Nadal/Djokovic rivalry, but aside from spin, a little bit more power and speed, and monster serves, I don't see much of a difference between men and women.

I think the fact you just have started watching tennis excuses you, so you are forgiven for the stupid things you have said.

When I went to the US Open last year, frankly I only saw the men a few degrees above the women. I feel Tennis is more of a mental game if anything. I mainly watch American Football & Basketball so I know physically no woman can compete, but those are contact sports. Tennis is more about the mind. Again seeing games in person, I only saw a few degrees of difference between the men and the women.

Did you by any chance drink copious amounts of beer that day?

Maybe is my untrained eye, still learning about the sport.

Yes.

Originally Posted by Sombrerero loco

he was close to retirement and had drunk 2-3 beers before the match. but ok, williams would beat federer on straight sets

She would bagel him, Roger would barley get a point on her serve. Her serve is better than Isner's

[Dr.Slice]

Originally Posted by SliceAce

A WTA fan, ladies and gentlemen...

[producer88]

Originally Posted by SliceAce

A WTA fan, ladies and gentlemen...

When did I ever deny that? I'm a fan of both. The ATP started my interest, but Serena and my American pride attracted me to the WTA.

It's my opinion that I don't see much of a difference between ATP/WTA except ATP has more variety in their shots. I just started watching Tennis in 2011 when Novak won AO. I know about the old great players watching YouTube videos and reading about them here.

[duarte_a]

Originally Posted by producer88

But this isn't any of those sports. This is Tennis...maybe it's the fact I just seriously started to get into it, because of Rafa/Nadal/Djokovic rivalry, but aside from spin, a little bit more power and speed, and monster serves, I don't see much of a difference between men and women. Those factors may be enough to destroy Serena, but I can't see a 16 yo boy hitting the ball so hard that she can't return it. Remember this isn't any regular WTA player, this is Serena.

When I went to the US Open last year, frankly I only saw the men a few degrees above the women. I feel Tennis is more of a mental game if anything. I mainly watch American Football & Basketball so I know physically no woman can compete, but those are contact sports. Tennis is more about the mind. Again seeing games in person, I only saw a few degrees of difference between the men and the women. Maybe is my untrained eye, still learning about the sport.

[producer88]

Originally Posted by duarte_a

Oops my mistake hahaha Federer/Nadal/Djokovic

Either way, some of you act like Tennis is such a manly physical sport. I'm sorry I see as a mental game. Physical sport to me is American Football & Basketball, Tennis to me is about skills, from what I witness.

[Dr.Slice]

Originally Posted by producer88

Oops my mistake hahaha Federer/Nadal/Djokovic

Either way, some of you act lime Tennis is such a manly physical sport. I'm sorry I see as a mental game. Physical sport to me is American Football & Basketball, Tennis to me is about skills, from what I witness.

Have you ever played tennis?

[Jverweij]

Originally Posted by producer88

When did I ever deny that? I'm a fan of both. The ATP started my interest, but Serena and my American pride attracted me to the WTA.

It's my opinion that I don't see much of a difference between ATP/WTA except ATP has more variety in their shots. I just started watching Tennis in 2011 when Novak won AO. I know about the old great players watching YouTube videos and reasing about them here.

Well I stand by your right to voice your opinion, but it really isn't grounded in reality. I think your American pride is distorting your vision.

Don't get me wrong, Serena Williams is a superb player by WTA standards, and this is mostly due to her serve. Her serve is less than average by ATP standards though, and that is the only thing she has going for her. Her movement is so bad that it makes de Bakker look like Federer. And yes she can hit hard, if the ball is set up in the middle. This might be a regular occurence in the WTA, but if she were to play an ATP player, she's lucky to have 1 or 2 of these shots in a match. When she's on the run, she won't be able to do anything. And I'm not even talking about the variety of strokes she would be stunned by.

Seriously mate, she might win 1 or 2 games if she manages to server extremely well, but that's it.

Still, better than the 6-0 6-0 the rest of the WTA will get served.

[duarte_a]

Originally Posted by producer88

Oops my mistake hahaha Federer/Nadal/Djokovic

Either way, some of you act lime Tennis is such a manly physical sport. I'm sorry I see as a mental game. Physical sport to me is American Football & Basketball, Tennis to me is about skills, from what I witness.

I like it there is no murray in there.

Did you watch last year's grindfest, boring, sleep inducing AO final?

Serena is used to blow opponents in less than a hour. She wouldn't have the stamina to keep up with a male tennis player. And tennis is a physical game imo and men are just more gifted genetic-wise.

[stebs]

Originally Posted by Litotes

Williams has tried playing against a man before. This is what happened (from Wikipedia):

In 1998, 203rd ranked male player Karsten Braasch took on Venus Williams and beat her 6–2. He also played Serena Williams and won 6–1 after the Williams sisters, who were 17 and 16 at the time, said they could beat any man ranked 200 or worse. Braasch was 15 years older than Serena and Venus, and had drunk 2 beers and played one round of golf that morning. Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance" as he claimed he had played like someone ranked 600 in order to keep the game "fun

I'm aware of this. Given what I posted though, it has little to no bearing considering Williams serve (which is of primary importance in why I think she would win games) was nowhere near the peak of its development at the time. It is unclear to me how you can claim that this match is relevant whilst denying the relevance of the match in the original post (against Kokkinakis for example, who is also only 16).

Surely either both are relevant, or neither are. I personally think neither are relevant if the matter at hand is 'could Serena Williams (as of now) take games of top mens tennis players'. The Williams who lost to Braasch was not comparable to the Williams who won all the slams and the Williams of now. In 1998, Williams lost 6-1 6-1 to Joanette Kruger (who?), last year she beat Sharapova 0 and 1. It's true I've cherry picked these results, but the point is, the available evidence doesn't provide a demonstrable answer to the question. There is clearly some scope for plausible disagreement. To me, Sharapova being competitive against these juniors (who are ranked), Williams comprehensive superiority to Sharapova, and the fact that Williams serves so well (two aces in one game against Djokovic is quite telling), combine to make a compelling case for the idea that Williams would win games against top male players. How many games is another question, but imo, Tomic would be extremely unlikely to be able to prevent Williams winning any games at all if they played a match.

[producer88]

Originally Posted by Dr.Slice

Have you ever played tennis?

Of course I have, I live in NYC we have tennis courts all around, and the US Open. Tennis is difficult for me, because I have a horrible time controlling the ball. It's a cardio workout when I put in the time, and it's mainly mental. When I mean physcial I mean body contact, push, shove, attack physical haha.

[nole_no1]

WTA haters in full force i don't really get it

[producer88]

Originally Posted by Jverweij

Well I stand by your right to voice your opinion, but it really isn't grounded in reality. I think your American pride is distorting your vision.

Don't get me wrong, Serena Williams is a superb player by WTA standards, and this is mostly due to her serve. Her serve is less than average by ATP standards though, and that is the only thing she has going for her. Her movement is so bad that it makes de Bakker look like Federer. And yes she can hit hard, if the ball is set up in the middle. This might be a regular occurence in the WTA, but if she were to play an ATP player, she's lucky to have 1 or 2 of these shots in a match. When she's on the run, she won't be able to do anything. And I'm not even talking about the variety of strokes she would be stunned by.

Seriously mate, she might win 1 or 2 games if she manages to server extremely well, but that's it.

Still, better than the 6-0 6-0 the rest of the WTA will get served.

Haha you know what I think you're right. It's probably my American pride trying to defend Serena. She's the only one keeping us relevant in tennis. John Isner, Fish, Querrey, Baker...I root for them but they always disappoint me.

You don't know how much I'm praying for Jack Sock to breakthrough (if he does at all).

[Allez]

I thought this thread was about Maria Sharapova ? Why has this become an anti Serena orgy?

[Jverweij]

Originally Posted by nole_no1

WTA haters in full force i don't really get it

though I find the WTA extremely boring to watch, my comments are not because I have a problem with the WTA, I just have a knack for reality. Pretty sure this is the case for most here

[latso]

A 16yo kid out of the top 700 might eventually drop a set against the cream of WTA, which is Shara, Serena and Vika.

Maximum a set, eventually and only against those 3.