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Old 12-28-2012, 08:00 AM   #31
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Default Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013

Never made sense why Tennis channel shows repeats of matches from a year ago and boring bio-pics about Sam Querrey instead of showing challengers, juniors, and qualies. Like challengers are never going to be pulling in millions of viewers but if there was a solid way to watch them and make money off it (instead of forcing fans to watch choppy illegal streams) both the ATP and the tournaments would be happier. ATP decisions never made sense though, they have the second worst marketing team in sports (WTA is the worst).
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:55 AM   #32
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Default Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013

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Originally Posted by SliceAce View Post
Never made sense why Tennis channel shows repeats of matches from a year ago and boring bio-pics about Sam Querrey instead of showing challengers, juniors, and qualies. Like challengers are never going to be pulling in millions of viewers but if there was a solid way to watch them and make money off it (instead of forcing fans to watch choppy illegal streams) both the ATP and the tournaments would be happier.
For a TV channel, showing repeats of matches for which they have the rights costs nothing, putting a camera on a court costs something.

And for whatever reason, TV channels feel obliged to send reporters to tournaments when they show them, which costs even more.
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:19 AM   #33
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Default Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013

The tennis channel is a straight up mess. I think they still have James Blake as the player spotlight on their website (I guess he's still in the top ten). http://www.tennischannel.com/game/players/index.aspx

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For a TV channel, showing repeats of matches for which they have the rights costs nothing, putting a camera on a court costs something.

And for whatever reason, TV channels feel obliged to send reporters to tournaments when they show them, which costs even more.
I think SliceAce has a point about the ATP's marketing strategies, tho. Even if they just decided to put stationary webcams on one challenger event per week and streamed it on atpworldtour.com, it could make a huge difference.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:26 AM   #34
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Default Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013

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For a TV channel, showing repeats of matches for which they have the rights costs nothing, putting a camera on a court costs something.

And for whatever reason, TV channels feel obliged to send reporters to tournaments when they show them, which costs even more.
Yes of course I know why (the reason is always money), the real question is why the ATP is so incompetent as to waste the great opportunity tennis channel is. Tennis channel should be the bridge between fans who are so desperate for tennis they'll watch live scores which are nothing more than ticking numbers and challengers which desperately need an audience. The challenger finals is a good idea but the ATP seems unable to market it or deal with the larger onset of rot in the tennis world that is causing challengers to disappear and challenger players to quit/young people to choose other sports for lack of funds. Of course, the ATP is having trouble getting slam finals on television, so challenger coverage is the last thing they should be worried about.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:30 AM   #35
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Default Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013

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The tennis channel is a straight up mess. I think they still have James Blake as the player spotlight on their website (I guess he's still in the top ten). http://www.tennischannel.com/game/players/index.aspx



I think SliceAce has a point about the ATP's marketing strategies, tho. Even if they just decided to put stationary webcams on one challenger event per week and streamed it on atpworldtour.com, it could make a huge difference.
Yeah, I've watched my fair share of streams which were so choppy they were more of a slideshow than a video. Think about how popular Crazy Dani was when he finally got his 15 minutes in the spotlight at the USO. There's already an audience, a bunch of great personalities and game-styles that don't exist anymore on the main tour, and serious drama unmediated by the controlled media image of the main tour. ATP refuses to make investments, and I seriously worry about the existence of tennis when Fed/Nadal are gone.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:38 AM   #36
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Default Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013

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Yes of course I know why (the reason is always money), the real question is why the ATP is so incompetent as to waste the great opportunity tennis channel is. Tennis channel should be the bridge between fans who are so desperate for tennis they'll watch live scores which are nothing more than ticking numbers and challengers which desperately need an audience.
I'm French, I don't receive Tennis Channel (which countries do actually ?) we have had the possibility to subscribe to tennistv.com for a few years, but it's still a recent service and of course they need time to develop, and I also have my share of difficulties to get a good stream because of my internet connection.

I know many people who talk a lot about tennis on forums but they don't want to pay to watch it, they only watch the free streams on livescorehunter or sportlemon. Some challengers are streamed there by the way.

I clearly don't think they would pay a channel to watch challengers.

Probably there are more wealthier people among golf passionates.

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Of course, the ATP is having trouble getting slam finals on television, so challenger coverage is the last thing they should be worried about.
quite contradictory with what you said before : if the audience for slam finals is not big enough, is it because of the ATP marketting ? No marketting should be needed for a slam final
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:51 AM   #37
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Default Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013

It's tough to market the clowns nowadays, I'm not expecting a miracle like making people love Djokovic/Murray finals. Just that they fail to do even the basics of their job, which is make sure TV coverage exists for the widest audience possible, make tennis news get into general sports news on ESPN and the newspaper, make sure the slams are run in a functional manner, and have highlights, previews, and replays since not everyone can watch 12 hours of tennis straight. There are so many problems with the ATP/ITF (which are basically the same corrupt organization), which can probably all be boiled down to greed and cronyism. Just a shame that challenger players, who are probably the hardest working sportsmen in the world, are the ones who suffer the most.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:58 AM   #38
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Default Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013

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It's tough to market the clowns nowadays, I'm not expecting a miracle like making people love Djokovic/Murray finals. Just that they fail to do even the basics of their job, which is make sure TV coverage exists for the widest audience possible, make tennis news get into general sports news on ESPN and the newspaper, make sure the slams are run in a functional manner, and have highlights, previews, and replays since not everyone can watch 12 hours of tennis straight. There are so many problems with the ATP/ITF (which are basically the same corrupt organization), which can probably all be boiled down to greed and cronyism. Just a shame that challenger players, who are probably the hardest working sportsmen in the world, are the ones who suffer the most.
you say that it's hard to market Djoko-Murray and you imagine that the ATP could "make sure" that "tennis news get into general sports news on ESPN and the newspaper" ? I don't see the logics in that, there's no way to force newspapers, esp. in the US where you come from, where tennis marketting seems to have big problems comparing to other sports.

In France and probably in the whole Europe, tennis is widely in sports news, and surely not because of the ATP, but just because people like tennis on our continent
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:12 AM   #39
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Default Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013

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you say that it's hard to market Djoko-Murray and you imagine that the ATP could "make sure" that "tennis news get into general sports news on ESPN and the newspaper" ? I don't see the logics in that, there's no way to force newspapers, esp. in the US where you come from where tennis marketting seems to have big problems comparing to other sports.

In France and probably in the whole Europe, tennis is widely in sports news, and surely not because of the ATP, but just because people like tennis in our continent
Situation in the USA is much more dire than in France, as you can probably guess after 5 straight years of Monday USO finals for example, I'm a big Isner fan. You would assume that Isner, being the best hope for american tennis, having been in a legendary match, and beating Djokovic in an epic masters 1000 SF last year would be all over the news for the USO and given primetime coverage. Well, you would be wrong, instead he was put after a terrible Shriekapova match and lost in meek fashion at 2am on a Monday night. The rest of the USO was the typical disaster, only saved in the news media by the retirement of Roddick giving tennis the spotlight for a fleeting moment.

Not all of this is the ATP's fault. One of the problems is the lack of coordination between the various country organizations (the USTA is a disaster obviously), the WTA which is dragging the ATP down with the weight of it's corpse, the tournament organizers, the different levels of the game (challengers, main tour, slams) seem to have no coordination at all. The ATP is simultaneously too big and bloated an organization to efficiently do anything and too small an organization to run the different levels of tennis in a profitable and organized manner so that challengers build into 250s build into masters build into slams.

But I'm getting off topic so I'll stop here, you got me ranting sorry
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:14 AM   #40
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Default Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013

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Situation in the USA is much more dire than in France, as you can probably guess after 5 straight years of Monday USO finals for example, I'm a big Isner fan. You would assume that Isner, being the best hope for american tennis, having been in a legendary match, and beating Djokovic in an epic masters 1000 SF last year would be all over the news for the USO and given primetime coverage. Well, you would be wrong, instead he was put after a terrible Shriekapova match and lost in meek fashion at 2am on a Monday night. The rest of the USO was the typical disaster, only saved in the news media by the retirement of Roddick giving tennis the spotlight for a fleeting moment.

Not all of this is the ATP's fault. One of the problems is the lack of coordination between the various country organizations (the USTA is a disaster obviously), the WTA which is dragging the ATP down with the weight of it's corpse, the tournament organizers, the different levels of the game (challengers, main tour, slams) seem to have no coordination at all. The ATP is simultaneously too big and bloated an organization to efficiently do anything and too small an organization to run the different levels of tennis in a profitable and organized manner so that challengers build into 250s build into masters build into slams.

But I'm getting off topic so I'll stop here, you got me ranting sorry
it's not completely off-topic but I don't get that idea that marketting can force people's and newspapers' interest : in the end of the day people are free to watch or get interest, if they can't even get interested in Djokovic-Murray, how could they be interested in Cipolla-Zopp ?
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:18 AM   #41
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it's not completely off-topic but I don't get that idea that marketting can force people's and newspapers' interest : in the end of the day people are free to watch or get interest, if they can't even get interested in Djokovic-Murray, how could they be interested in Cipolla-Zopp ?
If you build it they will come.

I am not really a golf fan yet I'll watch the European Tour when it is on if I have nothing else to watch. People like me are the target audience for sponsors.

The same should be done for tennis on TV. There simply isn't enough of it on.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:24 AM   #42
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I am not really a golf fan yet I'll watch the European Tour when it is on if I have nothing else to watch. People like me are the target audience for sponsors.
even when there are hundreds of TV channels and millions of websites ?

It seems to me that there's a big competition between audience makers at the moment.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:25 AM   #43
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Default Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013

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If you build it they will come.

I am not really a golf fan yet I'll watch the European Tour when it is on if I have nothing else to watch. People like me are the target audience for sponsors.

The same should be done for tennis on TV. There simply isn't enough of it on.
Not the experience of Norwegian television channels, some of which have made large bets to build up sports Norwegians are relatively unaccustomed to, like for instance basketball. Made a real effort, showed lots of games on TV, cooperated with the teams....but the public simply wasn't interested. So the whole thing petered out, and TV moved on to the next sport. You can generate some interest by media, but there has to be a foundation at the bottom.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:27 AM   #44
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Default Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013

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even when there are hundreds of TV channels and millions of websites ?

It seems to me that there's a big competition between audience makers at the moment.
If I'm sat down in front of the TV and I want to watch sport, then yes I will watch it.

From a UK perspective we simply don't get enough tennis on the TV.

Will discuss it later however. Enjoy your day.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:31 AM   #45
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Default Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013

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If you build it they will come.

I am not really a golf fan yet I'll watch the European Tour when it is on if I have nothing else to watch. People like me are the target audience for sponsors.

The same should be done for tennis on TV. There simply isn't enough of it on.
Yeah golf is basically what tennis should be, except it's even more ridiculous since golf is objectively boring while tennis is one of the most active, exciting , and advertising friendly sports out there. If Tiger Woods can be the name in golf while tennis is ready to bury Federer and prop up players no one gets excited for some money clearly exchanged hands where it wasn't supposed to. And if Federer and Nadal can have the most consistent success in reaching slam finals and winning Masters series in tennis history (which is essential for marketing top players obviously) and yet we can't even get the first week of a masters series on tv or the slams on public television there's a problem. How can the next generation possibly match the star power of the current starts who are making tennis work despite the best efforts of the ATP. Especially Federer, without whom we would probably have a two year ranking system, stupid saturday at all the slams, and a truly impoverished challenger tour.
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