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Old 12-16-2012, 07:19 PM   #61
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

40 years age of the sociologist David Phillips Embed the term "Werther effect" to explain why after a certain suicides is widely publicized, there has been a dramatic increase in the rate of suicides in the area. According to Philips, with distraught people exposed to cases highlight suicide, this increases the chance that they will do this on their own in imitation of the behavior of non - normal.

Phillips called this effect bc he was inspired by Goethe's novel "Sorrows of Young Werther": It's a novel in which the hero Suicide, this apparently caused a drastic increase in suicides in Europe after its publication in 1774. Subsequent studies have shown that the same is true for general crimes and genocide specifically, a phenomenon known as: copycat crimes.

The explanation for this phenomenon is related to the concept of social psychology called "social proof" (social proof). According to this concept people use cues from the environment to understand how to behave. When many behave in a certain way, they give that "social proof" that it is true to behave, and others imitate their behavior.

For example, people prefer to buy books when they are bestsellers, simply because they are best-sellers, or stand in a restaurant full of diners, only if it is full and wont sit in a nearby restaurant where there is a place without a need to wait.

By Philips distraught people are "social proof" the release of extreme activities like suicide or murder, and increased tendency to do this themselves.

i copy that from an israeli site
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:45 PM   #62
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA


The tragic shootings in Newtown, Connecticut have touched the lives of many people, including former ATP Executive Chairman & President Adam Helfant, who is the uncle of one of the young victims, Grace Audrey McDonnell.

Mr Helfant provided the following statement and photograph on behalf of the family.

"We are overwhelmed by the outpouring of love and support from so many people. Our daughter Grace was the love and light of our family. Words cannot adequately express our sense of loss."

Lynn, Chris and Jack McDonnell
http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Ten...n-Tragedy.aspx
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:38 AM   #63
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

such a beautiful kid.

if anything, i hope this tragedy serves to put some sense in the yanks' skulls and start limiting gun access.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:53 AM   #64
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

It's for reasons like gun laws that I'm glad we had a Prime Minister willing to make the tough decisions, but right decisions, in John Howard. Australia historically has a good history regarding gun violence, we have had our share of gun massacres. But since Howard's gun reform in 1996 (banning all semi-automatic rifles, and all semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns, among other restrictions) I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that gun violence had decreased something like 49%.

If a few dozen dead children can't make the US see that what's in place isn't working, I hold very little hope of the US reconsidering their position on gun laws any time soon.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:01 AM   #65
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

Terrible tragedy. I'm writing an essay about gun laws and the 2nd amendment as we speak for college, obviously including this story. When I look at all the different sources and facts I've collected, it seems staggering that they can still allow for little to no gun control.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:00 PM   #66
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

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Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
Terrible tragedy. I'm writing an essay about gun laws and the 2nd amendment as we speak for college, obviously including this story. When I look at all the different sources and facts I've collected, it seems staggering that they can still allow for little to no gun control.
ask the NRA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rifle_Association

The best lobbiers in the american free nation after AIPAC.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:45 PM   #67
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA



Shootings in 2012:

Oikos University

Tulsa, Okla.

Seattle Coffee House

Aurora, Colorado

Sikh Temple

Minneapolis Sign Company

Portland Mall Shooting

Sandy Hook Elementary

Every shooter was on pyschotropic drugs. Guns have been around forever and are not the underlying cause of rampant shooting sprees, although they are necessary.

http://www.ssristories.com/index.php?p=school

Peter R. Breggin, MD - Antidepressants & Suicide - Congressional Testimony, February 24, 2010


Dr. Breggin was a scientific expert for more than 170 cases concerning anti-depressants and violence/suicide, that were combined by a court to provide for one person to research the data and look into the company files for all of the suits. This gave him access to the basic data from Eli-Lilly and other drug companies. He discovered that the rate of suicide attempts in the control clinical trials of the drug (Prozac) versus placebo showed a 6-12:1 ratio of suicide attempts in the control group compared to placebo. Eli-Lilly never made the findings public and never made it available to the FDA.

09:10: "It states in this section that the following symptoms I'm going to list have been reported in children and adults taking anti-depressants, both for psychiatric and non-psychiatric purposes. And the list includes; anxiety, aggitation, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability, hostility, aggressiveness, impulsivity, akathisia - which is psychomotor restlessness and the DSM4, which is our major document, points out that akathisia leads to violence and suicide - hypomania and mania. And mania is an out of control state that increases vastly the risk of violence and suicide. And note the mention of irritability, hostility, aggressiveness and impulsivity. Imagine causing that in young men and women who are heavily armed and under a great deal of stress."

Imagine.

Watch the whole thing.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:00 PM   #68
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

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Originally Posted by Mjau! View Post
Every shooter was on pyschotropic drugs. Guns have been around forever and are not the underlying cause of rampant shooting sprees, although they are necessary.
Why I am not surprised

Automatic guns have been around forever? Along with video games that imitate shooting from those automatic or semi-automatic guns?

Wasn't it obvious that Adam Lanza played a "video-game" in that school?!

The guns are the cause of death, they are the ones to blame, and they are the ones to be banned. People with psychiatric problems have been around for much longer than automatic guns and violent video games. And you can't ban them. Unless you are Hitler.

On the other hand, when I read the comments from the guns advocates especially the one about the right to have a Ferrari I realized, Americans are not ready to admit that for them money is the most important value, not human lives.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:43 PM   #69
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

mjau! is right in that quote you cite.

then again, guns still need to be severely restricted. there will always be lunatics around us but i'd prefer if those lunatics didn't have access to assault rifles.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:45 PM   #70
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
mjau! is right in that quote you cite.

then again, guns still need to be severely restricted. there will always be lunatics around us but i'd prefer if those lunatics didn't have access to assault rifles.
thats true, they dont need easy access to guns or any kind of Weapons
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:34 AM   #71
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

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then again, guns still need to be severely restricted. there will always be lunatics around us but i'd prefer if those lunatics didn't have access to assault rifles.
Indeed. If a lunatic is set on going on a killing spree using an assault rifle, it's very hard to prevent that. However, strict gun laws do work.

In Flanders, Belgium, we had a shooting in 2006: some lunatic was set to go on a killing spree on the street before a police officer was able to shoot him down (he killed 2, seriously injured a 3rd person but an alert policer officer was able to take him down before he could go on). The man was part of a shooting club and was able to buy a rifle in a shop.The gun laws have toughened up and since then, the gun incidents have been cut in half. You can't prevent it from happening but tough gun laws can reduce the number of victims.

You can't totally prevent a person who is set on going on a killing spree. If he can't buy a gun legally, he'll find a way to buy it illegally. However, it shouldn't be that easy to buy a gun that can spew several bullets per second. If you want to buy a gun for defence against burglars or something, you don't need to buy a gun designed to go to war. People shouldn't be able to have easy access to that sort of gun.

In my newspaper, they listed a number of popular guns and how much it costs in average in the US to buy them:
- A Sig Sauer, 9mm munition, fires 5 bullets per second, a small gun, easy to hide: $ 650 to $ 950.
- A Glock, 9 mm munition, fires up to 5 bullets per second, including "hollow point" bullets (designed to maximise damage because they open up when entering a body), also easy to hide: $ 520 to $ 600
- A Bushmaster: .223-kaliber, this is a semi-automatic weapon designed for warfare: $ 600 to $ 1000.
If I compare the prices of those weapons with what it would cost me to buy a brand new iPad from Apple or a computer, it's ludicrous that it's more expensive to buy an iPad or a laptop.

Then, there's the ads surrounding those guns. Bushmaster Firearms - Consider your man card reisssued


The killer in Connecticut used a Bushmaster.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:00 AM   #72
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

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Wasn't it obvious that Adam Lanza played a "video-game" in that school?!
What are you talking about? That's purely your guesswork.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:18 AM   #73
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

So sad to see this still happening in our world.

The families of those who died will never recover, and every time the press is all about "something must be done to prevent this from happening in the future" and each time the matter is soon forgotten in the coming year.

Everybody blames guns, when the real problem is deeper than that. Guns are just the means, but not the reason, the source of the problem. It's true though that such a massacre can be avoided without guns. Melee weapons can never lead to such a rampage. But we must try to cure this from happening from the source, to have people not attempt this even without guns.

Some people blame drugs, but these aren't the source either.

The truth is that we are the real problem here, the parents, the colleagues, the friends, the tutors, the enemies of those who do such an act, and those of us who are responsible for our fellows' mental health. What can we do to prevent such events in the future? Nothing much, since nobody can ever see what the human mind can do in extreme situations, but I think that hate is a dominant force in our world and it must be purged. We are forever damned to see our loved ones become innocent bystanders in the way to someone else's 15 minutes of fame? I certainly hope not.

My thoughts go to the families of the those killed. May you somehow find peace, and may your loved ones rest in peace.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:33 AM   #74
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

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Why I am not surprised

Automatic guns have been around forever? Along with video games that imitate shooting from those automatic or semi-automatic guns?

Wasn't it obvious that Adam Lanza played a "video-game" in that school?!


The guns are the cause of death, they are the ones to blame, and they are the ones to be banned. People with psychiatric problems have been around for much longer than automatic guns and violent video games. And you can't ban them. Unless you are Hitler.

On the other hand, when I read the comments from the guns advocates especially the one about the right to have a Ferrari I realized, Americans are not ready to admit that for them money is the most important value, not human lives.
I call bs. read the PDF in my earlier post.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:34 AM   #75
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

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Everybody blames guns, when the real problem is deeper than that. Guns are just the means, but not the reason, the source of the problem.
I agree. However, the problem I have with this is that this is the same line of thinking the gun lobbies are hiding behind. I feel that nothing will ever change in those gun laws if people insist on this issue.

Sure, guns are not the problem on their own. Sure, they're only the means and you have to look at the people behind those attacks and how to prevent them from exploding

However, you still have to think about the availability of guns that can fire several bullets per second for example.
Hate has always been an issue in society, it's nothing new, but once you create weapons that can kill several people within minutes from a comfortable distance, weapons everybody can easily buy in a shop,...you put the means in the hands of those who hate and those who want revenge.

If in one country, you can cut gun incidents in half by just making stricter gun laws, why wouldn't it work in the next country?

Last edited by Castafiore : 12-18-2012 at 08:41 AM.
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