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Old 12-15-2012, 11:05 AM   #16
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

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Old 12-15-2012, 11:21 AM   #17
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

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Originally Posted by HKz View Post
Very sad situation. Gun control issues are obviously going to be raised for the next few weeks. But truly, there is really no true way to make a perfect gun control law. Even if the government outlawed civilians from having or using guns, no matter what, just like drugs, anyone who really wants a weapon can go get one and still commit such atrocities then the pendulum will only swing to the other team saying that we need guns to protect ourselves, etc.
No one says it can be perfect. Some mafia member or a similar person will always get what he wants. But no way an ordinary citizen should be able to get a cannon at his local supermarket.
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Old 12-15-2012, 03:19 PM   #18
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

So many idiots saying "this could've been prevented if teachers were armed."

Yeah, because that's exactly what we need, more guns in schools
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:38 PM   #19
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

It's time for the guns to be prohibited, everywhere. Seriously. Because the main contribution to the increase of the mass shootings is TV/movies/computer games. The new generation is very immature (I also think the time goes more quickly now and the 20 year olds are more like 15 year olds of the 60th-70th ). What I am saying is the teenagers who go through all their usual teenage hormonal change at the same time have legal right to possess a gun, isn't that crazy?! In addition they are raised in a very different culture where the value of live has been diminished significantly! I mean, they are used to shoot people in their games, they really think you can have two-three spare lives, and so do the ones they kill.

Look at the Hollywood movies and TV shows-- for whatever reason they slowly make people to believe that a good guy may kill dozen of people for whatever "high morals values" and still be a good guy! The "hero" will kill several "enemies", make fires/bombings, cause several cars with innocent civilians to crash and to burn, send a bus with passengers flying over river, you name it! And in the end of the movie the police will finally arrive, gather around the "hero", honor him, the love of his life would run into his arms and kiss him... And that'd be the end. What will a typical teenager learn from this movie? Will he think about the innocent victims, damage, explosions and fires? Of course not! Will he confuse the computer game or Hollywood trash with a real life? Most of them not but very many will. And among those many there will be always several who have an easy access to the guns and one day he will have a reason to use these guns. The reason that would sound stupid to everyone but him because he is a teenager after all.

Believe me, there is currently a problem with new generation's minds. They don't feel like a human life is sacred. Dostoevsky said-- nothing can justify a single tear of a child. Is this the idea of current cinema? Or maybe the computer games teach that? No. As to the books, who of the kids of 20 years old and younger read now? Come on, be honest! Maybe 1-2 out of 20 if we are optimistic.

The only way to stop or at least limit this madness is to prohibit guns for civilians in all the countries. USA included. If they can't have this law adopted by their legislature, an international treaty should take care of it and USA will just need to ratify it.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:51 PM   #20
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

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Originally Posted by gulzhan View Post
It's time for the guns to be prohibited, everywhere. Seriously. Because the main contribution to the increase of the mass shootings is TV/movies/computer games. The new generation is very immature (I also think the time goes more quickly now and the 20 year olds are more like 15 year olds of the 60th-70th ). What I am saying is the teenagers who go through all their usual teenage hormonal change at the same time have legal right to possess a gun, isn't that crazy?! In addition they are raised in a very different culture where the value of live has been diminished significantly! I mean, they are used to shoot people in their games, they really think you can have two-three spare lives, and so do the ones they kill.

Look at the Hollywood movies and TV shows-- for whatever reason they slowly make people to believe that a good guy may kill dozen of people for whatever "high morals values" and still be a good guy! The "hero" will kill several "enemies", make fires/bombings, cause several cars with innocent civilians to crash and to burn, send a bus with passengers flying over river, you name it! And in the end of the movie the police will finally arrive, gather around the "hero", honor him, the love of his life would run into his arms and kiss him... And that'd be the end. What will a typical teenager learn from this movie? Will he think about the innocent victims, damage, explosions and fires? Of course not! Will he confuse the computer game or Hollywood trash with a real life? Most of them not but very many will. And among those many there will be always several who have an easy access to the guns and one day he will have a reason to use these guns. The reason that would sound stupid to everyone but him because he is a teenager after all.

Believe me, there is currently a problem with new generation's minds. They don't feel like a human life is sacred. Dostoevsky said-- nothing can justify a single tear of a child. Is this the idea of current cinema? Or maybe the computer games teach that? No. As to the books, who of the kids of 20 years old and younger read now? Come on, be honest! Maybe 1-2 out of 20 if we are optimistic.

The only way to stop or at least limit this madness is to prohibit guns for civilians in all the countries. USA included. If they can't have this law adopted by their legislature, an international treaty should take care of it and USA will just need to ratify it.
Oh, absolutely. What we really need is a world government that will decide what's best for all of us. What's next, banning kitchen knives?
The real issue is violence in movies and video games. Ban that.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:54 PM   #21
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

God bless America.
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:00 PM   #22
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

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Originally Posted by vucina View Post
The real issue is violence in movies and video games. Ban that.
Sure, the issue is not real world guns, the issue is cartoon and movie guns

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Originally Posted by gulzhan View Post
What I am saying is the teenagers who go through all their usual teenage hormonal change at the same time have legal right to possess a gun, isn't that crazy?!
Completely wrong.

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American boys are starting puberty up to two years earlier than decades ago, new data show.
http://www.ajc.com/news/lifestyles/h...-us-boy/nSj79/
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:03 PM   #23
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

I think the issue is with parenting. Don't let your kid go unnoticed.
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:04 PM   #24
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

Well, sane and mentally stable people usually don't get inspired by movies and video games and don't implant those behaviours into reality.
History knows a lot of examples of serial killers in the past who were hardly patterning themselves on movies, unless TV was a common good in the 18th century.
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:48 PM   #25
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

this is horrible, horrible news. These kids are so young, and now so many of them are dead, and even more are scarred for life. I can't imagine how horrible that must be.

This will once again bring up the gunlaws-issue and this, in my opinion is useless. It is not as silly as saying it's videogames, because unless you actually kill someone with a videogame, it is all speculation (at the very best, a weak correlation was found between violent games and increased aggresive behavior, but even these findings are being questioned http://www.igea.net/wp-content/uploa...lburn-2010.pdf). It IS true that guns don't kill people, but people do. America is not the only gun-crazed country in the world, yet the gun-based murder rate dwarves those of any 10 other countries taken together. Imo the problem is an addition of what abraxas and kowchi said. America is riddled with fear of the unkown, and fear of the different. This does not explain these kinds of shootings though. Usually the shooters are derailed adolescents/young-adults, who feel mostly ignored, neglected, and generally angry at society.

This country has a serious problem, and it is not gun-control. The sad thing is..Holland is heading in the same direction.

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Old 12-15-2012, 05:56 PM   #26
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

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Sure, the issue is not real world guns, the issue is cartoon and movie guns
USA is not the only country in the world where people have easy access to guns. But it is the only country where people take Hollywood movies seriously. Where else does a madman enters a theater believing he's a movie character and starts shooting?
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:09 PM   #27
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No one says it can be perfect. Some mafia member or a similar person will always get what he wants. But no way an ordinary citizen should be able to get a cannon at his local supermarket.
Why does it have to be a mafia member type of person? You actually think even if guns were completely outlawed for civilian usage that there would be no way for an ordinary person to get a firearm? How naive is that? They can't control illegal drug trafficking, they couldn't control alcohol production and distribution during prohibition and there is no way in hell they would be able to have complete gun control. No matter what, a nutcase like the one in yesterday's shooting will still be able to find a way to get a gun. Sure, it will be harder, but no matter what, such availability is always evident. I mean it is oblivious to think otherwise.
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:12 PM   #28
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USA is not the only country in the world where people have easy access to guns. But it is the only country where people take Hollywood movies seriously. Where else does a madman enters a theater believing he's a movie character and starts shooting?
In Norway a madman believing he's a Templar knight or similar kind of crap killed over 70 people, I'm sure you're familiar with that. There will be always mad people, but guns should never be readily available.

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Why does it have to be a mafia member type of person? You actually think even if guns were completely outlawed for civilian usage that there would be no way for an ordinary person to get a firearm? How naive is that? They can't control illegal drug trafficking, they couldn't control alcohol production and distribution during prohibition and there is no way in hell they would be able to have complete gun control. No matter what, a nutcase like the one in yesterday's shooting will still be able to find a way to get a gun. Sure, it will be harder, but no matter what, such availability is always evident. I mean it is oblivious to think otherwise.
It wouldn't be impossible, but it would be much harder, and that alone would be enough to deter a lot of people. A locked car isn't going to stop a good thief from stealing it, but I bet you wouldn't leave your car unlocked with the keys inside and the engine running, complete with the sign "please help yourself, I know I can't stop you anyway".
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:22 PM   #29
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

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So many idiots saying "this could've been prevented if teachers were armed."

Yeah, because that's exactly what we need, more guns in schools
It's very difficult to say if armed teachers would be a good or a bad thing. For sure it wouldn't decrease the number of shooting incidents, those gunmans would anyway in most cases kill themselves. But an armed teacher could stop that gunman.

On the other hand, a prolem would be how to keep the guns so that pupils can't get them. And anyone with a gun is a potential safety threat. What if the teacher gets mad?

Anyway, armed teachers is something I don't think will ever happen. But if there are known safety hazards, then armed guards wouldn't necesssarily be a bad thing.

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This will once again bring up the gunlaws-issue and this, in my opinion is useless. It is not as silly as saying it's videogames, because unless you actually kill someone with a videogame, it is all speculation (at the very best, a weak correlation was found between violent games and increased aggresive behavior, but even these findings are being questioned http://www.igea.net/wp-content/uploa...lburn-2010.pdf). It IS true that guns don't kill people, but people do. America is not the only gun-crazed country in the world, yet the gun-based murder rate dwarves those of any 10 other countries taken together. Imo the problem is an addition of what abraxas and kowchi said. America is riddled with fear of the unkown, and fear of the different. This does not explain these kinds of shootings though. Usually the shooters are derailed adolescents/young-adults, who feel mostly ignored, neglected, and generally angry at society.
Agree very much. Well, I'm not from USA but I think they could have stricter gun laws, to try to control who have guns. But that wouldn't be a complete solution to this problem. As you said, "It IS true that guns don't kill people, but people do". With stricter gun laws, some of these incidents would've still happened, either with legal or illegal guns.
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:24 PM   #30
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Default Re: Shooting leaves 27 dead in Connecticut, USA

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It wouldn't be impossible, but it would be much harder, and that alone would be enough to deter a lot of people. A locked car isn't going to stop a good thief from stealing it, but I bet you wouldn't leave your car unlocked with the keys inside and the engine running, complete with the sign "please help yourself, I know I can't stop you anyway".
Actually I take it back. It honestly wouldn't be that much harder. There are plenty of underground criminal activity that distribute the purchase of firearms illegally. I know several friends that have gotten guns in this manner. If anything, it would only raise the prices of illegal weaponry up if gun laws become stricter.

No matter what, there will NEVER be a realistic solution that will work out for gun control at least here in the United States were individual states are so torn apart on such issues themselves.

Instead, what the focus should be is better education on mental problems people face. Supposedly the shooter from yesterday had some mental issues but clearly he wasn't watched too carefully. Obviously no one excepts someone to commit such an atrocity even if they are mentally unsound, but I think too many similar people don't get the proper attention when they show signs of obvious trouble.
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