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Old 11-26-2014, 09:26 AM   #1
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Default Which is the hardest surface to dominate?

I believe clay is the hardest surface to dominate because you need the purest tennis skills on that surface. On grass you can get by with just a great serve and HC isn't even a natural surface.

Incidentally, the RG has been the hardest to win out of all the slams too. Consider this : Federer, Murray, Novak, Sampras, Agassi have won 48 Grand Slams between them but only 2 have been French Opens!!
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:35 AM   #2
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Default Re: Which is the hardest surface to dominate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 17-6-302 View Post
I believe clay is the hardest surface to dominate because you need the purest tennis skills on that surface. On grass you can get by with just a great serve and HC isn't even a natural surface.

Incidentally, the RG has been the hardest to win out of all the slams too. Consider this : Federer, Murray, Novak, Sampras, Agassi have won 48 Grand Slams between them but only 2 have been French Opens!!
No, on clay consistency is everything. On grass it is much harder to dominate since the scores are usually closer and when someone is playing very good and serving from a tree there´s not much you can do ... it should be actually quite obvious?
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:37 AM   #3
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Default Re: Which is the hardest surface to dominate?

None it particular, that depends mostly on the competition. The more competitive a surface, the harder to dominate, which can change over time.
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:39 AM   #4
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Default Re: Which is the hardest surface to dominate?

faster surface = harder to dominate . anyone who claims other knows shit about the game
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:40 AM   #5
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Default Re: Which is the hardest surface to dominate?

Probably hardcourt. It's the most common, so naturally, it will have the highest number of players playing well on it.
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:45 AM   #6
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Default Re: Which is the hardest surface to dominate?

Last decade:

Number of players to win RG - 2 (Nadal 9 times and Federer once)
Number of players to win AO - 5 (Safin, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Wawrinka)
Number of players to win USO - 6 (Del Potro, Cilic, Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Murray)
Number of players to win Wimbledon - 4 (Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray)

Just goes to show that RG has had the fewest fluke results and clay in general has the better player winning more often. Clay is the fairest surface in terms of skills-reward ratio.
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:50 AM   #7
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Default Re: Which is the hardest surface to dominate?

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Originally Posted by 17-6-302 View Post
I believe clay is the hardest surface to dominate because you need the purest tennis skills on that surface. On grass you can get by with just a great serve and HC isn't even a natural surface.

Incidentally, the RG has been the hardest to win out of all the slams too. Consider this : Federer, Murray, Novak, Sampras, Agassi have won 48 Grand Slams between them but only 2 have been French Opens!!



on clay possibility of an upset is easily the lowest. even when you aren't having a good day you can always grind oponent into errors. also the guy needs few great shots to win a point, serve can't save you from troubles like on faster surfaces .

jesus christ what an examples and corolation . Murray and Sampras are clay journeymen, Fed and Nole playing in the time of greatest clay court player of all time, as for Agassi, he had few other great runs at RG, not just "accidental" title. But clay was never the surface which suited his game the best.

So by your logic . How do you explain that Lendl and Wilander won multiple RGs but failed to win Wimbledon . Why Chang, Muster, Kafelnikov etc... won RG and one grass failed to pass QF at Wimbledon etc... etc...
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:50 AM   #8
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Default Re: Which is the hardest surface to dominate?

Clay is the most dominated surface in last decade.
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:53 AM   #9
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Default Re: Which is the hardest surface to dominate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 17-6-302 View Post
Last decade:

Number of players to win RG - 2 (Nadal 9 times and Federer once)
Number of players to win AO - 5 (Safin, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Wawrinka)
Number of players to win USO - 6 (Del Potro, Cilic, Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Murray)
Number of players to win Wimbledon - 4 (Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray)

Just goes to show that RG has had the fewest fluke results and clay in general has the better player winning more often. Clay is the fairest surface in terms of skills-reward ratio.

So you are now agreeing that on clay the best player is less prone to upsets and thus is more likely to dominate the surface
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:59 AM   #10
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Default Re: Which is the hardest surface to dominate?

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Originally Posted by samanosuke View Post



on clay possibility of an upset is easily the lowest. even when you aren't having a good day you can always grind oponent into errors. also the guy needs few great shots to win a point, serve can't save you from troubles like on faster surfaces .

jesus christ what an examples and corolation . Murray and Sampras are clay journeymen, Fed and Nole playing in the time of greatest clay court player of all time, as for Agassi, he had few other great runs at RG, not just "accidental" title. But clay was never the surface which suited his game the best.

So by your logic . How do you explain that Lendl and Wilander won multiple RGs but failed to win Wimbledon . Why Chang, Muster, Kafelnikov etc... won RG and one grass failed to pass QF at Wimbledon etc... etc...
Yes, thats exactly the point.
Upsets dont happen willy nilly - why because the better player always wins.

This also implies that you need to be "the better" player to win that surface.
Other surfaces are like luck of the draw.

It also means that on Clay only the TOP brass come to latter stages and you never get mugs in finals etc which you can vulture against

So the question boils down to
for lower ranked players (lesser players) - Other surfaces is easier to fluke and same goes for top players who get mugs in later stages.
for top players - Clay is harder to dominate.
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:00 AM   #11
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Default Re: Which is the hardest surface to dominate?

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Originally Posted by Blathzer View Post
Clay is the most dominated surface in last decade.
By the GOAT.
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:01 AM   #12
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Default Re: Which is the hardest surface to dominate?

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Originally Posted by f1yer View Post
Yes, thats exactly the point.
Upsets dont happen willy nilly - why because the better player always wins.

This also implies that you need to be "the better" player to win that surface.
Other surfaces are like luck of the draw.

It also means that on Clay only the TOP brass come to latter stages and you never get mugs in finals etc which you can vulture against

So the question boils down to
for lower ranked players (lesser players) - Other surfaces is easier to fluke and same goes for top players who get mugs in later stages.
for top players - Clay is harder to dominate.
Top class objective post by the classiest and most objective poster here.
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:04 AM   #13
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Default Re: Which is the hardest surface to dominate?

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By the GOAT.
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:27 AM   #14
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Default Re: Which is the hardest surface to dominate?

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Originally Posted by f1yer View Post
Yes, thats exactly the point.
Upsets dont happen willy nilly - why because the better player always wins.

This also implies that you need to be "the better" player to win that surface.
Other surfaces are like luck of the draw.

It also means that on Clay only the TOP brass come to latter stages and you never get mugs in finals etc which you can vulture against

So the question boils down to
for lower ranked players (lesser players) - Other surfaces is easier to fluke and same goes for top players who get mugs in later stages.
for top players - Clay is harder to dominate.
In my book, one can say player X dominates grass if he has been winning Wimbledon for 3 years in succession, or player y dominates clay if he has been winning RG 3 years in succession. Given that grass is more accommodating to upsets than clay, wouldn't there be a higher chance someone flukes that Wimbledon title from you the next time coming, hence ending your domination? So, isn't a surface more prone to upsets harder to dominate mathematically?

Also if clay is less prone to upsets, and you have been winning already, you can win yet another title playing the same way as you have been doing. Isn't the impact of the factors beyond your control smaller on clay then?

So, to dominate on clay you just have to be a better player, to dominate on grass, you have to be a better player and not have too bad a luck/draw.

So, on grass, it would be easier to get a single title, but harder to dominate, and vice-versa for clay.
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:53 AM   #15
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Default Re: Which is the hardest surface to dominate?

Hard is clearly the hardest surface.
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