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Old 11-27-2012, 12:05 AM   #46
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Default Re: In my opinion, the Challenger Tour Finals should be...

and the tournament is played indoors, when all the players are clay mugs
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:06 AM   #47
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Default Re: In my opinion, the Challenger Tour Finals should be...

abolished.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:30 AM   #48
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Default Re: In my opinion, the Challenger Tour Finals should be...

Quote:
Originally Posted by J99 View Post
I agree that this WC is as exclusive as it gets, however other tourney's can be quite exclusive with their WC's too.
Normal tournaments qualify you based on ranking however, this qualifies you based on how well you do in challengers ad is supposed to be a "finals", it shouldn't be giving WC, like someone already said it would be like giving a WC to someone in the WTF
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:35 AM   #49
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Default Re: In my opinion, the Challenger Tour Finals should be...

Quote:
Originally Posted by J99 View Post
Why, there are 2 tours.

So what if they play both tours, if they earn enough points on the CH tour then it proves that they are quite good at CH's and should be rewarded for it, yet not quite good enough for the main tour.
There are 2 tours but they are intermingled, people play both in the same year, its not like golf where you play the PGA tie all year or the web.com tour all year people can play both and that leads to most of those who are better challenger players not playing as many challengers and maybe as a result not making this field. It's tough to make it a true final event when tours are intermingled I think that's the point duong was trying to make
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:38 AM   #50
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Default Re: In my opinion, the Challenger Tour Finals should be...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennishero View Post
and the tournament is played indoors, when all the players are clay mugs
Yeah that's what surprises me, most of the players hi dominate the challenger for are clay players(why is that? Are there more clay challengers?), and Brazil is more known for clay courters, why do they play it on hard?
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:54 AM   #51
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Default Re: In my opinion, the Challenger Tour Finals should be...

held much sooner, end of october - beginning of november
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:58 AM   #52
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Default Re: In my opinion, the Challenger Tour Finals should be...

Quote:
Originally Posted by duong View Post
actually many players did withdraw and the participants are not at all the top-8 from the rankings
I am perfectly aware of that. Still unfair for the first guy that ended up not qualifying.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:08 AM   #53
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Default Re: In my opinion, the Challenger Tour Finals should be...

Quote:
Originally Posted by J99 View Post
Alot of the players you mentioned are now back to their normal CH level.
Dodig, Rosol and Zeballos are ranked around 80 in the world (72 and 73 for Dodig and Rosol), Golubev has been ranked the same for 2 years and has reached rank 33 before falling down in the second part of this year, Ramos has been in the top-50 for nearly a year.

What does mean "challenger-level players" in your eyes ?

not-permanent top-50 players ? in that case, only around 35 players are not challenger-level players,

and ATP250 tournaments are mostly composed of ... challenger level players.

When I read what people say in this forum, I really wonder what is an "ATP250 tournament player" : I really can't see who they are

in my eyes, a "challenger level player" is a player who is stuck between the rank 100 and 300, I can see who they are and there are many of them !
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:55 AM   #54
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Default Re: In my opinion, the Challenger Tour Finals should be...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovetheblues_86 View Post
Bellucci is managed by KochTavares the same sports company that organize the atp challenger tour finals . By the way, the same sports company that organized the Old Copa Petrobras. I dont know if you remember but there used to be a challenger " finals" back in 2004-2009 with the best players of the last 5 challengers played in South America ( there used to be challengers in Montevideo, Assuncion, Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, etc) and it was also organized by KochTavares. So this event is basically an "upgrade"
Check this image.
You can see theres a champions tournament in december with 100,000 as prize money


Its not Bellucci fault that his managers ask him to play this tournament.
The Champions event of Petrobras Cup usually had 3 (yes, 3!!!) wildcards.
So calling Bellucci a vulture is imaturity, you are probably just mad because Klizan was gammed in 2011, so dont call me a nationalist.



Not exactly truth. If someone is willing to pay 220,000 for 8 challenger players that are top ranked, it will help create a motivation to perform better during the challenger tour. A top Challenger player take 50,000 per year playing challengers and he can get more that this in only one event.

If you create a event of 32 players, the players will get less money and earn less points.

Unless you dont know that a pleyer that loses all three matches in challenger tour finals gets 6,300 and the reserve players get 3,500.

If the problem is the wildcard for Bellucci, then hopefully someone from other country will organize it and give a wc to lets say, Daniel Gimeno-Traver or Mathieu (if its in France). But you cant complain of the format if only the brazilians are willing to organize this tournament. Its their initiative, not ATPs.

And of course I dont defend Bellucci participation, I am just giving the whole context of the tournament. Klizan didnt like it either i 2011, but I dont think a guy like Reynolds complained of getting 12,000 us$ by winning only one match in 2011.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovetheblues_86 View Post
Because if a Brazilian doesnt play there it doenst get attendance maybe. Remember that is a 220 k event with only challenger players.

Besides, the idea for this event came from a brazilian ex-player, Thomaz Koch. If you are gonna to criticize the event, at least know that the initiative came from brazilians that are eager to pay challenger players a lot of money (6,300 for losing in three rounds). Now, if another country wants to hold the same event and pay the same, then you can change the place.

The price of the tickets are 2,50us$ and 5,00 us$ by the way.

You all want to rise the prize money for challenger players but cant accept a wc to a local player?
What part of this you didn't understand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by duong View Post

On topic : why is the event in Sao Paulo ? Because that's where there was a sponsor with money and a place to welcome the event for God's sake, that's economy !

And Bellucci happens to be sponsored by the event's sponsor
This. Without Koch Tavares there are no challenger finals. So an event like this one in another country and without Bellucci just with another sponsor. Are there other one in current stage of world economy?

Last edited by saviopr : 11-27-2012 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:02 PM   #55
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Default Re: In my opinion, the Challenger Tour Finals should be...

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Originally Posted by 156mphserve View Post
Yeah that's what surprises me, most of the players hi dominate the challenger for are clay players(why is that? Are there more clay challengers?), and Brazil is more known for clay courters, why do they play it on hard?
Because is cheaper. Brazil don't have a great permanent clay stadium. The same is valid for being an indoor tournament. There are not great permanent outdoor stadiums for tennis in Brazil.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:59 PM   #56
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Default Re: In my opinion, the Challenger Tour Finals should be...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 156mphserve View Post
Normal tournaments qualify you based on ranking however, this qualifies you based on how well you do in challengers ad is supposed to be a "finals", it shouldn't be giving WC, like someone already said it would be like giving a WC to someone in the WTF
Only because the brazilians wanted it. ATP cant force this rule. So its just a normal tournament travestied in a final.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:06 PM   #57
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Default Re: In my opinion, the Challenger Tour Finals should be...

ATP could force it by telling them they won't endorse it and give it ranking points if they don't but I guess they dont want to do that
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:12 PM   #58
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Default Re: In my opinion, the Challenger Tour Finals should be...

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ATP could force it by telling them they won't endorse it and give it ranking points if they don't but I guess they dont want to do that
I think the deal is simple : it's either all of the conditions or nothing, the tournament would just not exist without all of these conditions (I think it will disappear in a few years anyway as this balance is too fragile and the success doesn't look big enough)

And the idea from the ATP's point of view is that this event is good for the visibility of the challenger Tour and then for the economy of this challenger tour ... and then for the prize money which players get in the end (not ideal of course but rather good)

That's economy, even if I know of course that economy is a topic which people don't want to take in consideration in this forum
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:34 AM   #59
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Default Re: In my opinion, the Challenger Tour Finals should be...

I think this picture yesterday during the match between Ungur and Ramirez-Hidalgo (3rd match of the day) is enough to explain Bellucci's invitation, and from what I read above the ticket prices are cheap !

Anyway, probably this event will disappear in a few years' time ...
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:45 AM   #60
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Default Re: In my opinion, the Challenger Tour Finals should be...

Wow, that's the exact opposite of the O2's audience. Brazilians really don't like tennis that much. If ATP has balls, they will move this event in a more welcoming country, despite the fact that Brazilians came up with the idea. But that's another matter, probably duong will be right.
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