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Old 11-21-2012, 11:02 AM   #121
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Default Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Originally Posted by GOATsol View Post
Yes, he will.
no man he wont.........Nadal is back no more fluke Slams for Maestro
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:25 AM   #122
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Default Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Originally Posted by Saberq View Post
no man he wont.........Nadal is back no more fluke Slams for Maestro
nadal was also there at wimby 2012.

oh, yeah, i know, he was injured...
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:49 AM   #123
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Default Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Originally Posted by duong View Post
actually I don't know what part was inspired by his family in this initial posture, they maybe thought it would be an effective marketing attitude.

What I admire most from Djokovic is precisely the way he has managed to distance himself from his family and get a really personal and also well-thought attitude. He's a very clever guy imo.
Maybe you don't like your family but some people do.

One of the things I like most about Novak is that he is so genuinely close to everyone in his family. It shows he has been brought up well.
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:27 PM   #124
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Default Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Originally Posted by Saberq View Post
no man he wont.........Nadal is back no more fluke Slams for Maestro
Obviously you did not watch Wimbledon 2012 where Fed won.

Or do you have selective amnesia?
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People need to wake up. Olderer is not winning anymore slams - neither is he going to become #1.
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:29 PM   #125
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Default Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Originally Posted by Yolita View Post
If Novak said that, I like him even more, that's the right attitude to go after the #1.

I'm only criticisisng Roger for what he said about Novak in 2006, which I still think was wrong from the #1 player, talking about an 18-year-old. There must be a reason why Novak got under Roger's skin so soon.

That's my hypothesis.

I criticise the other players for waving a white flag when entering the court to play Roger. It was happening then. It still happens ... I don't think it's the right attitude for a top athlete. One thing is to be self-aware, another is to enter the court already defeated.

Roger wouldn't be human if he didn't enjoy that state of things. It's not his fault. It's the other players' fault. And they have paid the price, because even now, Roger is winning some matches with his name, not necessarily with his tennis.


Of course their story started in conflict: Novak was after the #1, he never tried to hide it (I miss cocky Nole )
I'm sure Novak has faked in the past, same as Murray and others... I'm glad it's not happening so much now. But the way it was written about, you'd think it was the worst crime ever commited. The double standards in the tennis establishment are appalling. Just imagine what would happen if Novak said something similar about Harrison, or Tomic, or Raonic...

But I think Novak has been using the whole situation in his favour. After all, he has backed his former cockiness with his tennis. He's now #1, he's become very savvy, he's a great entertainer, he has a great personality and will be (already is) a huge asset for tennis for many years to come.
well, I just think what happened was natural, I don't think it means that Fed expected from other players that they would bend down, that's where I disagree, I don't get what that caricatural image does come from.

For instance, Murray didn't bend down at all to Fed and gave him many problems from the start, from their very first match in Bangkok when he was 18 and then his great win in Cincy when he was just 19.

And from their first match, Fed did praise Murray a lot (the Dubai story came later and actually in that match, Fed reproached Murray not to use all of his weapons and that he could get much better, which shows the esteem he had for Murray's talent).

Djokovic in that initial time did much more than not bending down : he put himself in frontal aggression (the words I quoted and Dijana's words "the king is dead" are enough evidence imo), and well in these conditions it was natural imo that Fed, who had success AND experience (and don't forget that Federer had not had success at such a young age as Djokovic had, he had many tough years as a youngster before), would think "WTF is this young guy ?"

Add the faking matter, notably in DC against Wawrinka ...

Besides, in 2006, Fed was more impressed by Murray, as were many people in that time from what I remember. And as much as I think Djokovic is a better player than Murray and I prefer his attitude on-court, it was perfectly understandable for me since I saw both of Djokovic and Murray on court : Murray has those slice and volleys which look like a more varied and talented game than Djokovic, and when you look at a young guy, these things make impression and make you say "this guy is talented". And especially for a guy like Fed from whom people should never forget that he was brought-up in love with Becker or Edberg's game, that's what he loved and looked at in tennis, I think that people underrate that education matter a lot.

Djokovic didn't have that : in 2006 he was a promising player but didn't look like a "supreme talent", rather a hardworking new guy with a solid but not special game from Eastern Europe. In 2006 I remember that I looked at Djokovic the way I've looked at Cilic later, nothing more, I was very surprised and pleasantly by him in 2007 actually.

Then imagine Fed : you're on top of the game, and you see a young guy coming, with frontal aggression to you, faking, and not even looking greatly talented. It's natural that you look at him a little bit like a clown with a clownish family. I don't think Fed created that nickname "the Djoker".

And Fed saw it from very near, in Davis cup.

I mean : imo top-players' personalities are very often caricatured, personally I look at all that and I try to understand without caricaturing, and I think "what happened was just natural".

I like both Fed's and Djoko's personalities : although they're very different (Fed is a "direct/honest" guy for instance, Djokovic is a seducer who wants to be loved and does his best for that, both attitudes can be very nice imo), were brought-up very differently, different age, both of them are very clever imo and also have some things in common.

I think there are to many caricatures and I don't get that ugly image of a Fed wanting all other people to bend down to him, which some people have for what reason exactly apart from the fact that they see a player who has had a lot of success and has received an unbelievable appraisal (Fed has not always been number 1, no sorry for the ones who look at him like that, he has been an average player for long) ? Many players and persons say that Fed is a very down-to-earth person who talks a lot and very naturally with everybody. I have not heard anything bad about his attitude with people off-court, only nice things about such a busy guy. Do you think all other players would say that if he really looked at them with conceit ?

I also like very much Djokovic, and admire his personality because as I meant, coming from such a family, it was very hard not to become a brat. He had that clever, opened and nice look to the world which allowed him to become a good guy actually ... because that's also something I've kept from what everybody says of him, that he's a "sponge", able to imitate the others very quickly to learn new ways to do (for instance that's what his coaches said of him, and it's not surprising that he's so talented at imitating).
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:32 PM   #126
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Default Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Originally Posted by Saberq View Post
no man he wont.........Nadal is back no more fluke Slams for Maestro
So, you're dead sure Nadal will eliminate Djokovic in all slam SFs so he can prevent Fed from winning the title if he should make his way to the final?
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:58 PM   #127
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Default Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Originally Posted by Yolita View Post
I'm sure Novak has faked in the past, same as Murray and others... I'm glad it's not happening so much now. But the way it was written about, you'd think it was the worst crime ever commited. The double standards in the tennis establishment are appalling. Just imagine what would happen if Novak said something similar about Harrison, or Tomic, or Raonic...
As for faking, I'm not a tennis player and I don't understand the proportion of critics about that, but it seems that they're very angry/upset about that.

In one interview, Fed also said that some old players had used such tricks against him when he was young and that had been printed in his mind. In that interview, he spoke against medical or toilet breaks at some moments, and it was not at all about Djokovic, it was generally speaking.

I don't get what you mean about "double standards", and I don't remember Murray in his youth doing what Djokovic did in that time.

I don't get either what you mean by "imagine what would happen if Novak said something similar about Harrison, or Tomic, or Raonic"

Of course there would be some critics as Federer received a lot of critics as well for his "patronizing" way of talking.

Actually, maybe I'm more tolerant to that as I'm often myself criticized for what others call a "patronizing tone" : but when I use it, I just think I want things to get better. Maybe it's because my parents were teachers, I don't know

Djokovic did also "patronize" Tomic in a way recently, but actually personally I think it can be good when people who are experienced think they can give a good advice to others. It's hard for me to understand some people's reactions who seem to be so angry/upset by such "patronizing words". I guess they've been very much hurt in their life by patronizing words
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:09 PM   #128
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Default Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Though I agree that Novak is an intelligent person, but it's not reflected in how he treats his family - that's just his love for them nothing more.
he loves and is grateful to them for sure but from some things I've heard he tried to keep them out of some of his business in recent years, he preferred doing things differently than how they would have done.
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:13 PM   #129
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Default Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
So, you're dead sure Nadal will eliminate Djokovic in all slam SFs so he can prevent Fed from winning the title if he should make his way to the final?
and you are dead sure Nadal will be in Novak's half
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:14 PM   #130
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Default Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Originally Posted by Hypnotize View Post
Maybe you don't like your family but some people do.

One of the things I like most about Novak is that he is so genuinely close to everyone in his family. It shows he has been brought up well.
no that's not what I mean : I mean that to get a better person, you also need to learn things from outside of your family and quite often, it requires distancing from them and their prejudice which they have brought to you : like the natural process of adolescence actually but it can be pushed more or less far
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:18 PM   #131
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Default Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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and you are dead sure Nadal will be in Novak's half
I am not dead sure about anything, you were the one making an absolute claim - not me. I thought I'd remind you what that might imply.
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:18 PM   #132
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Default Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

On topic Djokovic has got so many points in rankings in last months that his ranking is much better protected than the rankings of the ones behind him imo. I think that Djokovic will be a very solid number 1 for most of next year but behind him, many things may happen from Fed, Murray, Nadal to Ferrer for number 2 to 4 seeds (and Del Po and Berdych can also trouble them).

That's why yes, I see him as number 1 until late last year and overtaking Nadal for the number of weeks as number 1. And will probably stay ahead of Nadal for that stat in the future as well imo.

For the number of slams, I also think there's a good chance he overtakes Nadal for the number of slams.

Actually I expect him to dominate for several years and I fully understand that he aims at Sampras's record of 6 end-of-year number 1 rankings.

Yes, I think that with time going, Djokovic will be more and more recognized as one of the greatest players. Actually, since 2008, I've anticipated he would reach Lendl's, McEnroe's and Connors's category actually (I put Murray with Becker, Edberg and Wilander). So far I put Nadal still a bit higher but it can change.
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:36 PM   #133
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Default Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Originally Posted by Saberq View Post
no man he wont.........Nadal is back no more fluke Slams for Maestro
You think he fluked 17 slams?

Too bad Djokovic can't even beat Mugray in a slam final.
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Nadal of course. He and Djokovic are by far the most likeable members in top 4.

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As a knowledgable tennis fan (unlike some people here), I can tell you exactly that. There are tennis players who have problems with playing indoor tennis because of the different lights, different sounds etc. compared to outdoors and Nadal is obvioulsy one of those players.
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:51 PM   #134
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Default Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Originally Posted by Sophocles View Post
In the cases of Becker, Edberg, & Wilander, the explanation is simple: look at how many weeks McEnroe, Lendl, & Sampras spent at No. 1. Becker, Edberg, & Wilander were just unlucky that one or other of the other 3 was around and usually doing that bit better, just as Nadal was unlucky to be playing at the same time as Federer.
actually only one : Lendl

McEnroe and Sampras never prevented Edberg, Becker and Wilander from being number 1, or for few weeks only Sampras prevented Becker.
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:17 PM   #135
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Default Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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no man he wont.........Nadal is back no more fluke Slams for Maestro
Ah, the irony. A Djokovic fan calling Federer's SEVENTH Wimbledon title a fluke.

The only fluke was Djokovic winning his first ever and so far only grass title at Wimbledon, similar to Agassi and Stich(won more titles on grass in the future).


History tells us the players who won their very first grass title at Wimbledon in the past 35 years never won Wimbledon again.

Agassi's sole grass title during his long career was precisely that Wimbledon title. Will Djokovic emulate that?


That's flukey.
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