Rank the the best players on the tour by surface - Page 4 - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

Reply

Old 11-08-2012, 07:22 AM   #46
country flag GSMnadal
Registered User
 
GSMnadal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Netherlands
Age: 22
Posts: 16,243
GSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the the best players on the tour by surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
Which tournaments do you include as "Slower hard"? I am a little curious, since Beijing is the only HC tournament, any speed, where Nadal has won more than Federer. I'd think three more AOs, two more IWs and two more Miamis would more than cancel out that....but perhaps none of these are slow(er)?
It's about now

You can't just list all of Roger's achievements from 2004-7 and say that he should be above him because of that. Otherwise it'd be stupid to even rank Novak above Roger, but now he clearly is.

And the main reason to think Nadal is better on slow hard? Check out the meetings between the two on slow hard.
__________________
RAFAEL NADAL

'Rafael Nadal is the best ever' - John McEnroe

1 AO - 9 RG - 2 W - 2 USO
GSMnadal is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 11-08-2012, 07:32 AM   #47
country flag Litotes
ALT-0
 
Litotes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norway
Age: 41
Posts: 31,688
Litotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the the best players on the tour by surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
It's about now

You can't just list all of Roger's achievements from 2004-7 and say that he should be above him because of that. Otherwise it'd be stupid to even rank Novak above Roger, but now he clearly is.

And the main reason to think Nadal is better on slow hard? Check out the meetings between the two on slow hard.
It was a career list. One tends to view the players entire career in these. And yes, Federer is obviously ahead of Djokovic also. That does not mean he is better than Djokovic today. Just that his career, at least so far, is more accomplished on this surface also.

As you know, H2H is not a good measure for who is better, especially looking only at hard (any speed) - because Davydenko beats Nadal every time and Federer crushes Davydenko. A beats B, B beats C, C beats A...so who is better? Answer - the man with more titles.
Litotes is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 07:49 AM   #48
country flag GSMnadal
Registered User
 
GSMnadal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Netherlands
Age: 22
Posts: 16,243
GSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the the best players on the tour by surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
It was a career list. One tends to view the players entire career in these. And yes, Federer is obviously ahead of Djokovic also. That does not mean he is better than Djokovic today. Just that his career, at least so far, is more accomplished on this surface also.

As you know, H2H is not a good measure for who is better, especially looking only at hard (any speed) - because Davydenko beats Nadal every time and Federer crushes Davydenko. A beats B, B beats C, C beats A...so who is better? Answer - the man with more titles.
You take them into account, but the current state of things and recent results are more important and are what I focussed on (and I think just about everyone else). Having Federer ahead of Djokovic on slower hard would just make no sense whatsoever when you make a list like this today.

Reason I have Nadal on top on grass is because I feel he's still the best on that when he's a 100% fit.
__________________
RAFAEL NADAL

'Rafael Nadal is the best ever' - John McEnroe

1 AO - 9 RG - 2 W - 2 USO
GSMnadal is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 08:02 AM   #49
country flag Litotes
ALT-0
 
Litotes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norway
Age: 41
Posts: 31,688
Litotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the the best players on the tour by surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
You take them into account, but the current state of things and recent results are more important and are what I focussed on (and I think just about everyone else). Having Federer ahead of Djokovic on slower hard would just make no sense whatsoever when you make a list like this today.

Reason I have Nadal on top on grass is because I feel he's still the best on that when he's a 100% fit.
Current state of things and career list are two different things. I read your list as a current state of things, which is fair enough. RNIG, however, clearly stated he was giving a career list and not current level. And since Federer has won so much more than Nadal on slow(er) HC, I became curious as to how he'd defend this choice. Didn't expect you to defend his list for him.
Litotes is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 09:25 AM   #50
country flag Chase Visa
Registered User
 
Chase Visa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Age: 20
Posts: 4,987
Chase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the the best players on the tour by surface

If career is taken into account...

Clay:

1. Nadal
2. Federer
3. (Ferrero)
3. Djokovic
4. (Soderling)
4. Davydenko
5. Ferrer
6. Del Potro
7. Nalbandian
8. Robredo
9. Murray
10. Berdych

Grass:

1. Federer
2. Nadal
3. (Roddick)
3. Hewitt
4. Murray
5. Djokovic
6. Tsonga
7. Haas
8. Berdych
9. Nalbandian
10. Gasquet

Fast Hard:

1. Federer
2. Djokovic
3. Hewitt
4. Nadal
5. Murray
6. (Roddick)
6. (Soderling)
6. Nalbandian
7. Davydenko
8. Del Potro
9. Tsonga
10. Berdych

Slow Hard:

1. Federer
2. Djokovic
3. Nadal
4. Murray
5. Hewitt
6. (Roddick)
6. Davydenko
7. Tsonga
8. Ferrer
9. Nalbandian
10. Baghdatis

Yeah that was hard.
__________________
RIP Henry Chinaski. A true MTF legend
Chase Visa is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 09:30 AM   #51
country flag romismak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 23
Posts: 3,407
romismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the the best players on the tour by surface

My top 5 when are playing standard tennis - not super peak, not clowning around - but standard tennis based on 2012

OUTDOOR RED CLAY

1.Nadal
2.Djokovic
3.Del Potro
4.Federer
5.Ferrer

GRASS

1.Federer
2.Murray
3.Tsonga
4.Berdych
5.Nadal - yes Nadal 5th, because grass is not only Wimbledon 2nd week - he is more vulnerable to be blown of the court and on ,,faster,, grass i would take Tsonga and Berdych if not in clown form to serve and hit their way through Nadal and rest of the field

OUTDOOR SLOW HC - like AO, IW, Miami and so on

1.Djokovic
2.Nadal
3.Murray
4.Federer
5.Ferrer/Delpo

OUTDOOR FAST HC - like Cinci,Dubai, Canada, ,,USO,,

1.Federer
2.Djokovic
3.Murray
4.Delpo
5.Berdych

INDOOR HC

1.Federer
2.Murray
3.Djokovic
4.Berdych
5.Tsonga/Delpo
romismak is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 09:44 AM   #52
country flag Abel
Registered User
 
Abel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,823
Abel has a reputation beyond reputeAbel has a reputation beyond reputeAbel has a reputation beyond reputeAbel has a reputation beyond reputeAbel has a reputation beyond reputeAbel has a reputation beyond reputeAbel has a reputation beyond reputeAbel has a reputation beyond reputeAbel has a reputation beyond reputeAbel has a reputation beyond reputeAbel has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the the best players on the tour by surface

Nice list, Romismak, I'd agree with most of that.
Abel is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 11:02 AM   #53
country flag TBkeeper
Registered User
 
TBkeeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Age: 19
Posts: 4,021
TBkeeper has a reputation beyond reputeTBkeeper has a reputation beyond reputeTBkeeper has a reputation beyond reputeTBkeeper has a reputation beyond reputeTBkeeper has a reputation beyond reputeTBkeeper has a reputation beyond reputeTBkeeper has a reputation beyond reputeTBkeeper has a reputation beyond reputeTBkeeper has a reputation beyond reputeTBkeeper has a reputation beyond reputeTBkeeper has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the the best players on the tour by surface

Those who don't list Nalby/Davy in top 10 indoors are just ...
Clay: 1.Clay god Nadal
2.GOAT god Fed
Grass: 1. JesusFed
2. Topspin cyclone of death
Fast HC: 1.Vintage Fed
2.Fighterdal
Slow HC: 1.Endurancedal
2.Mr.Accuracy in other means Fedgod.
__________________
MR. FOREVER "UNDERRENTED"

SLAMS: 4 SEMIS, 6 QUARTERS
WTF: 1 TITLE, 1 FINAL, 1 SEMI
MASTERS: 3 TITLES, 5 SEMIS, 10 QUARTERS
TITLES: 21
MATCH WIN/LOSS: 482-329
TBkeeper is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 12:06 PM   #54
country flag DrJules
Registered User
 
DrJules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,593
DrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the the best players on the tour by surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
Clay:

1. Healthy Nadal
2. Nadal with blisters
3. Nadal with a cough
4. Nadal with a burned finger
5. Nadal with a broken foot
6. Nadal with tendinitis
7. Nadal with divorced parents
8. Nadal in a wheelchair
9. Djokovic 2.0
10. JESUSfed

Grass:

1. Nadal
2. Federer
3. Murray
4. Djokovic
5. Tsonga
6. Berdych
7. Gasquet
8. Ferrer


Hard:

1. Djokovic
2. Murray
3. Federer
4. Nadal (although he'd still beat Federer and Murray obviously)
5. Ferrer
6. Berdych
7. Del Potro
8. Tsonga
On what basis.
__________________
The current greatness league of active players in order of achievements to date (a factual comparison rather than fan biased assessment):

Federer 17 GS, 6 Year End Masters, 21 Master Series.
Nadal 14 GS, 0 Year End Masters, 27 Master Series, 1 Olympic Gold.
Djokovic 6 GS, 3 Year End Masters, 19 Master Series.


DrJules is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 12:20 PM   #55
country flag BroTree123
Registered User
 
BroTree123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 17,749
BroTree123 has a reputation beyond reputeBroTree123 has a reputation beyond reputeBroTree123 has a reputation beyond reputeBroTree123 has a reputation beyond reputeBroTree123 has a reputation beyond reputeBroTree123 has a reputation beyond reputeBroTree123 has a reputation beyond reputeBroTree123 has a reputation beyond reputeBroTree123 has a reputation beyond reputeBroTree123 has a reputation beyond reputeBroTree123 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the the best players on the tour by surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJules View Post
On what basis.
Truthism.
__________________
Quote:
Hian about himself
Quote:
No words can describe me.
Without me, it would be just aweso.
No shit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTwEeZi View Post
Never held a racquet in my life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTwEeZi View Post
I've played the game for close to 10 years. This should come as no surprise to many.

Banned Users
BroTree123 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 05:04 PM   #56
country flag johnny tsunami
Registered User
 
johnny tsunami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 153
johnny tsunami has a reputation beyond reputejohnny tsunami has a reputation beyond reputejohnny tsunami has a reputation beyond reputejohnny tsunami has a reputation beyond reputejohnny tsunami has a reputation beyond reputejohnny tsunami has a reputation beyond reputejohnny tsunami has a reputation beyond reputejohnny tsunami has a reputation beyond reputejohnny tsunami has a reputation beyond reputejohnny tsunami has a reputation beyond reputejohnny tsunami has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the the best players on the tour by surface

grass:

federer
nadal
djokovic
murray
tsonga

sorry but Murray doesn't have a wimbledon title

Clay:
nadal
djokovic
ferrer
federer
del potro

Fast Hard
younger federer
djokovic
murray (very close if not equal to djokovic)
nadal
older federer
del potro

slow hard
djokovic
nadal
federer
murray
ferrer
johnny tsunami is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 05:31 PM   #57
country flag GSMnadal
Registered User
 
GSMnadal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Netherlands
Age: 22
Posts: 16,243
GSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the the best players on the tour by surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJules View Post
On what basis.
I don't see anyone with better results the last couple of years. When he's fit, I don't see anyone beating him.
__________________
RAFAEL NADAL

'Rafael Nadal is the best ever' - John McEnroe

1 AO - 9 RG - 2 W - 2 USO
GSMnadal is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 05:47 PM   #58
country flag Vinceremo
Registered User
 
Vinceremo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Age: 23
Posts: 1,546
Vinceremo has a reputation beyond reputeVinceremo has a reputation beyond reputeVinceremo has a reputation beyond reputeVinceremo has a reputation beyond reputeVinceremo has a reputation beyond reputeVinceremo has a reputation beyond reputeVinceremo has a reputation beyond reputeVinceremo has a reputation beyond reputeVinceremo has a reputation beyond reputeVinceremo has a reputation beyond reputeVinceremo has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the the best players on the tour by surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
I don't see anyone with better results the last couple of years. When he's fit, I don't see anyone beating him.
Yes, we all know 'Healthy Nadal' is a mythical creature with unmeasurable power that can't be defeated by mortals, no?
Vinceremo is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 05:48 PM   #59
country flag Johnbert
Registered User
 
Johnbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,992
Johnbert has a reputation beyond reputeJohnbert has a reputation beyond reputeJohnbert has a reputation beyond reputeJohnbert has a reputation beyond reputeJohnbert has a reputation beyond reputeJohnbert has a reputation beyond reputeJohnbert has a reputation beyond reputeJohnbert has a reputation beyond reputeJohnbert has a reputation beyond reputeJohnbert has a reputation beyond reputeJohnbert has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
When he's fit


Sent from my GT-I9100 using VerticalSports.Com App
Johnbert is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 05:50 PM   #60
country flag romismak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 23
Posts: 3,407
romismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the the best players on the tour by surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
I don't see anyone with better results the last couple of years. When he's fit, I don't see anyone beating him.
He is overrated on grass, always was, yes his record at Wimbledon is fantastic if we don´t count his Rosol match than he played 5 finals at Wimby in row when he participated. But the fact is he is vulnerable on grass to big hitters, big servers and so on - even more than Roger or Andy who are clearly better grass-courters- if Roger or Andy would play Nadal in R1 of Wimby on fresh grass he wouldn´t win for sure. If they would face each other even at worse format for him at best of 3 in Queens or Halle he wouldn´t have chance + grass there is ,,faster,,

He was always top seeded so he played ,,nobodies,, in early rounds of Wimby when the grass is ,,faster,, and still he had many tough matches-5setters over the years and could have lost almost every year early - in 2012 it finally happened with Rosol, his luck run out. When he makes later rounds he is facing seeded guys but on slower court + best of 5 always will be better for Rafa than best of 3 format. If he would play on faster grass and best of 3 format he would be beaten by many players.

His movement and footwork on grass is great, maybe 2nd best after Roger but his grass skills are overrated - i mean he has 5 Wimby F in row so he must be all-time grass-court great right? Nole had Wimby title and Andy 3x losses in SF at Wimby so logically Nole must be better grass-courter? if we look 1 year back, but everyone knows Andy is superior grass-courter and can play well on grass, while for Nole it is worst surface.

Nadal playing Gulbis from that Berdych match would be blown off the court in straight sets. If he played red hot Berdych, Tsonga would be blown of the court.

Grass means not only Wimbledon - as surface
romismak is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios