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Old 11-07-2012, 09:48 PM   #31
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Default Re: WTF semi-final qualification speculation thread

I know that H2H comes in when 2 players are tied and, if 3 players are tied, it goes to: sets ratio, then games ratio, then ATP ranking, etc...
What I'm not sure about is, if 3 players are tied and it goes to sets ratio, if that leaves 2 players tied on sets and one either eliminated or through on sets, does it then go to H2H between the 2 tied on sets or does it go to games ratio between those 2?

For example:
Berdych beats Djokovic 2-1, Murray beats Tsonga 2-1. 3 players: Djokovic, Murray, Berdych are tied on wins so it goes to sets ratio. Djokovic has the best sets ratio so he goes through, leaving Berych and Murray tied on sets. Do we then look to games or does Murray go through based on H2H over Berdych?
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:53 PM   #32
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Default Re: WTF semi-final qualification speculation thread

^^ The way I read the rules, the head-to-head only counts when the tie in match wins is between just two players. With three players tied, it's first sets, then games and finally ATP ranking that decides.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:54 PM   #33
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Default Re: WTF semi-final qualification speculation thread

Murray goes through by virtue of nationality.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:56 PM   #34
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Default Re: WTF semi-final qualification speculation thread

Scores right now:

Djokovic 2W 0L, sets 4-1
Murray 1W 1L, sets 3-3
Berdych 1W 1L, sets 3-3
Tsonga 0W 2L, 1-4

Now let's go through some scenarios:

Berdych def. Djokovic + Murray def. Tsonga

Djokovic, Berdych and Murray will have equal wins and losses. Sets decide. If both matches go in straights, sets are Djokovic 4-3, Berdych and Murray 5-3. Berdych and Murray advance.

Murray will also advance if he wins in three if Berdych beats Djokovic in 2, I think, since he will have more sets won with the same difference.

If Berdych beats Djokovic in 3 and Murray Tsonga in 2, Djokovic and Murray will be through.

If Berdych and Murray both win in 3, Then Murray and Berdych will both have 5-4 set scores and H2H will decide since Djokovic will have the best ratio. Djokovic will advance surely.


Berdych def. Djokovic + Tsonga def. Murray

Djokovic and Berdych advance, with Berdych first from the group, Djokovic second.


Djokovic def. Berdych + Tsonga def. Murray

Djokovic will advance. Other players will have a three way tie, sets will decide.

If both matches are won in straights, Tsonga advances.

If Berdych wins a set against Djokovic and Tsonga wins in straights, Berdych advances.

If Berdych wins a set and Murray wins a set, Murray advances due to H2H.

If Berdych loses in straights and Murray wins a set, Murray advances.


Djokovic def. Berdych + Murray def. Tsonga

Djokovic and Murray advance.


Someone should probably double-check these
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Last edited by Lopez : 11-07-2012 at 10:05 PM. Reason: Misunderstood some rules apparently
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:59 PM   #35
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Default Re: WTF semi-final qualification speculation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by incognito View Post
^^ The way I read the rules, the head-to-head only counts when the tie in match wins is between just two players. With three players tied, it's first sets, then games and finally ATP ranking that decides.
Actually, I just found the answer. Here in the ATP rules:

Quote:
Comment 4: 3 players have 2 wins and the other player has 0 wins. The player with 0 wins is eliminated. Of the 3 players with 2 wins, 1 player’s sets won-loss is 5-2 for 71.43%; the other 2 players both have a 4-3 record in sets for 57.14%. In this case there is 1 superior player (71.43%) and the remaining 2 players are tied; it now reverts to the head to head result of the 2 remaining players with the winning player advancing as group runner-up.
So it only goes to games if all 3 players are tied on sets.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:00 PM   #36
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Default Re: WTF semi-final qualification speculation thread

So basically, Djokovic needs to grab a set, Murray potentially needs to win. A straight-sets loss would probably send Andy packing.
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lol, who will beat him? Wawrinka? Berdych? Gulbis? Rosol? Federer?

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Old 11-07-2012, 10:02 PM   #37
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Default Re: WTF semi-final qualification speculation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ogbg View Post
Actually, I just found the answer. Here in the ATP rules:



So it only goes to games if all 3 players are tied on sets.
just when I did the math . Will have to edit the post...
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lol, who will beat him? Wawrinka? Berdych? Gulbis? Rosol? Federer?

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Old 11-07-2012, 10:02 PM   #38
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Default Re: WTF semi-final qualification speculation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lopez View Post
If Berdych and Murray both win in 3, Then Murray and Berdych will both have 5-4 set scores and games will decide (good for Berdych who won a set against Tsonga 6-1). Djokovic will advance surely.
Djokovic would go through on sets ratio but Murray-Berdych would go to H2H because their set ratio is equal. It seems like it only goes to games ratio if all 3 players are tied on both wins and sets.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:04 PM   #39
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Default Re: WTF semi-final qualification speculation thread

A table with all the scenarios:

http://letsecondserve.blogspot.co.il...ification.html
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:05 PM   #40
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Default Re: WTF semi-final qualification speculation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lopez View Post
So basically, Djokovic needs to grab a set, Murray potentially needs to win. A straight-sets loss would probably send Andy packing.
If Murray lost in straights he would also need Berdych to lose in straights. That would put Murray, Berdych, Tsonga on equal wins and equal sets. Then any of the 3 could go through on games ratio. If he lost in straights and Berdych lost in 3, only Tsonga ad Murray would be equal on sets ratio out of the 3 and Tsonga would go through on H2H.
I think..

EDIT: That's wrong actually. If Murray lost in straights he would have a worse set ratio than Tsonga (3-5 vs 3-4) so he'd be out for sure.

Last edited by ogbg : 11-07-2012 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:08 PM   #41
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Default Re: WTF semi-final qualification speculation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ogbg View Post
If Murray lost in straights he would also need Berdych to lose in straights. That would put Murray, Berdych, Tsonga on equal wins and equal sets. Then any of the 3 could go through on games ratio. If he lost in straights and Berdych lost in 3, only Tsonga ad Murray would be equal on sets ratio out of the 3 and Tsonga would go through on H2H.
I think..
Tsonga will have the better ratio if both matches go in straights and he would be through (3-4 vs 3-5).

If Berdych loses in 3, he'll have 4-5 and Murray will have 3-5 in a straight sets loss, putting Berdych through.
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lol, who will beat him? Wawrinka? Berdych? Gulbis? Rosol? Federer?

Only Del Potro can take him out before the semis, and he won't. Nadal is winning the AO, bet your house on it.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:12 PM   #42
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Default Re: WTF semi-final qualification speculation thread

People are spending too much time on this. Nole's beating Berdshit and Mandy's going to annihilate the clown. It won't be a contest.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:13 PM   #43
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Default Re: WTF semi-final qualification speculation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by appleGirl View Post
That makes it easier!

So, of the 16 possibilities:

Djokovic goes through in 15
Murray goes through in 9
Berdych goes through in 7
Tsonga goes through in 1
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:14 PM   #44
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Default Re: WTF semi-final qualification speculation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lopez View Post
Tsonga will have the better ratio if both matches go in straights and he would be through (3-4 vs 3-5).

If Berdych loses in 3, he'll have 4-5 and Murray will have 3-5 in a straight sets loss, putting Berdych through.
Yeah, you're right.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:16 PM   #45
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Default Re: WTF semi-final qualification speculation thread

If Nole and Murray win then its 1. Nole, 2. Murray

If Berdych and Tsonga win its 1. Berdych, 2. Nole based on Berdych beating Nole h2H

If Nole and Tsonga win its more complicated as there'd be a 3 way tie for 2nd at 1-2

Nole would be 1st as he'd be 3-0

If its straight sets in both the Tsonga is 2nd based in his 3-4 set record to Murray and Berdych 3-5 set record

If its 3 sets in both then Murray and Berdych tie at 4-5 set record, Tsonga would be 3-5. Murray would take 2nd on his win over Berdych

If Nole wins in straights and Tsonga in 3 then Murray has 2nd in his 4-5 set record, the Tsonga and Berdych would be 3-5

If Nole wins in 3 and Tsonga in straights then its Tsonga 3-4, Berdych 4-5, Murray 3-5, Berdych advances as 4/9 is a better percentage than 3/7.

If Berdych wins and Murray wins its also complicated as we have 3 players at 2-1

If its both in straights then Berdych and Murray are at 5-3 sets while Nole is 4-3, Murray an Berdych advance with Muray 1st base in his win over Berdych

If its both in 3 sets then Nole is 1st with 5-3 sets, Berdych and Murray tie at 5-4 and Murray takes 2nd on h2h

If its Berdych in straights and Murray in 3 then Berdych is 1st with 5-3 sets, Nole has 4-3, Murray has 5-4, Nole is 2nd based on 4/7 being better than 5/9

If its Berdych in 3 and Murray in straights then Murray and Nole both have 5-3, Berdych has 5-4, Nole is 1st on h2h over Murray who will be 2nd

Under no circumstance will we go to game difference.

I would have made a table with the Nole/Berdych result along the top and Murray/Tsonga along the side which would have gave a 16 square grid if results which possibly would have been easier to understand. I believe I did this last year but I am without a computer this year so I cannot do that, I'm sure someone else could though
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