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04-18-2011, 09:51 PM
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#1
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Banned!
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Location: Sleeping in the house of my latest jumpoff.
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The dilemma of being too good for challengers and not good enough at the ATP level.
In baseball in the states, there are certain levels to designate what a player is in their career. You have MLB, then AAA league, AA league, and A league. In the AAA league, it's a mix of young upcoming players and older veterans who have never had a shot, or bounced around the MLB/AAA level and looking for an opportunity. You also have guys who have had a cup of coffee in MLB after doing good in AAA, and failed and been downgraded back to the AAA level, where they usually perform well again. Those guys are considered AAAA players, not good enough for MLB, but too good for AAA.
Tennis is very similar, in that you have the high level ATP's (1000, 500, strong 250s), you have low level ATP's and challengers, and then you have futures. And it's similar in that you have guys who are either working their ways up, or are rediscovering lost form or coming back from injuries. Then you have guys who have made it to the ATP level but failed.
So, my question is, which players in recent memory are the most classic cases of AAAA players, too good for challengers, but not good enough for ATP events consistently?
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04-18-2011, 09:52 PM
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#2
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Banned!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sleeping in the house of my latest jumpoff.
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Re: The dilemma of being too good for challengers and not good enough at the ATP leve
BTW, I made this thread because of the things people have said about Grigor. That he's not good enough for the ATP level. I personally think that's ridiculous to state so early in his development, but it's something that others debate, so...............
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04-18-2011, 09:54 PM
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#3
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Registered User
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Re: The dilemma of being too good for challengers and not good enough at the ATP leve
A lot of Amricans can fit into this category. Kendrick,Young,Russell.
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04-18-2011, 09:55 PM
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#4
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Re: The dilemma of being too good for challengers and not good enough at the ATP leve
Just look at the rankings and most guys that have their career highs for more than 2 seconds at around 80 are the correct answer.
Soeda is the perfect example of a good challenger level guy and a useless tour player.
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"A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
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04-18-2011, 09:56 PM
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#5
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ClayCourtTard
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: The dilemma of being too good for challengers and not good enough at the ATP leve
Yeah, there are a few tournament what is 250s even so isn't too strong. But it's quite few. Sadly. I'm thinking about Bucharest or Casablanca.
Which players do you think anyway? Because I thing there are lot of player who isn't good enought in ATP level but Challenger tournament can he hard for them.
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Granollers - Kubot - Nadal - Almagro - Isner - Bellucci - Robredo  TT singles ranking: 72 (higher: 67)
TT doubles ranking: 99 (higher: 99)
2013 --- Singles: Winner of Quimper CH and Rome 2 CH, SF of Chennai and Buenos Aires
Doubles: Winner of Burnie CH (w/delicfan), Bordeaux CH and Rome 2 CH(w/EnriqueIG8), finalist of Sao Paulo CH (w/EnriqueIG8)
2012 --- Singles: Winner of Singapore CH, finalist of Alphen CH and Mons CH
Doubles: Winner of Cordenons CH and Alphen CH (w/delicfan), finalist of Los Angeles (w/MikiKuba) and Cali CH (w/hat__boy)
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04-18-2011, 09:58 PM
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#6
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Re: The dilemma of being too good for challengers and not good enough at the ATP leve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonja1989
Which players do you think anyway? Because I thing there are lot of player who isn't good enought in ATP level but Challenger tournament can he hard for them.
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Has anyone ever told you that you sound like Nadal sometimes?
I find it endearing.
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"A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
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04-18-2011, 09:58 PM
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#7
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ClayCourtTard
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: The dilemma of being too good for challengers and not good enough at the ATP leve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V.
BTW, I made this thread because of the things people have said about Grigor. That he's not good enough for the ATP level. I personally think that's ridiculous to state so early in his development, but it's something that others debate, so...............
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Well Grigor... he should improve yet but he is interesting one, because he plays much better in CH event. I think he has mental problem in ATP tournaments or I don't know. But something weird reason.
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Granollers - Kubot - Nadal - Almagro - Isner - Bellucci - Robredo TT singles ranking: 72 (higher: 67)
TT doubles ranking: 99 (higher: 99)
2013 --- Singles: Winner of Quimper CH and Rome 2 CH, SF of Chennai and Buenos Aires
Doubles: Winner of Burnie CH (w/delicfan), Bordeaux CH and Rome 2 CH(w/EnriqueIG8), finalist of Sao Paulo CH (w/EnriqueIG8)
2012 --- Singles: Winner of Singapore CH, finalist of Alphen CH and Mons CH
Doubles: Winner of Cordenons CH and Alphen CH (w/delicfan), finalist of Los Angeles (w/MikiKuba) and Cali CH (w/hat__boy)
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04-18-2011, 09:59 PM
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#8
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Keep Your Dreams Alive
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Re: The dilemma of being too good for challengers and not good enough at the ATP leve
Prodon is the equivalent but between futures and challengers
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04-18-2011, 10:01 PM
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#9
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Banned!
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Re: The dilemma of being too good for challengers and not good enough at the ATP leve
Daniel, to some extent.
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04-18-2011, 10:03 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 22,285
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Re: The dilemma of being too good for challengers and not good enough at the ATP leve
If a player is too good for challengers, he won't be not good enough for the ATP level. That's not really possible.
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04-18-2011, 10:03 PM
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#11
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Registered User
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Re: The dilemma of being too good for challengers and not good enough at the ATP leve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwy
Prodon is the equivalent but between futures and challengers
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Or Middelkoop. Useless in challengers, but too good for futures. |
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04-18-2011, 10:04 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,718
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Re: The dilemma of being too good for challengers and not good enough at the ATP leve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwy
Prodon is the equivalent but between futures and challengers
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Prodon won few Challengers including 3 during the last 12 months, so i don't think he fits into this definition. He is a good challenger player.
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un pour un, un pour un
‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾"Je peux simplement vous dire que Jean-René Lisnard aime beaucoup les Chocapics" Benjamin Balleret
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04-18-2011, 10:05 PM
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#13
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Registered User
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Re: The dilemma of being too good for challengers and not good enough at the ATP leve
Zeballos, Scwhank are prime examples.
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04-18-2011, 10:05 PM
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#14
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Registered User
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Re: The dilemma of being too good for challengers and not good enough at the ATP leve
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMG
If a player is too good for challengers, he won't be not good enough for the ATP level. That's not really possible.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Soeda
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04-18-2011, 10:09 PM
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#15
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Re: The dilemma of being too good for challengers and not good enough at the ATP leve
If you follow the challenger tour you'll see that the level of play is significantly slower than in the tour. Basically most consistent players have a lot to gain from collecting the remains in matches against guys that actually have weapons but are inconsistent or/and headcases.
Clay is clay, most challengers on clay are won by specialists, guys that have played their whole life on the surface.
And on the faster surfaces, big servers always win. In a way, the challenger tour is a bit of a mirror of the 90's when the range in playing styles from winner to winner of tournaments was drastically different.
It's pretty interesting.
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The dilemma of being too good for challengers and not good enough at the ATP level.
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