[latso]

Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank

Sorry, but surely it cannot only be me who thinks this post is arguably the worst post on MTF ever?

Fuck me, make sure you get the snip because it'd be a crime if you were allowed to reproduce.

Often people confuse hard work, dedication, humility and other abilities or qualities with talent.

There is nothing wrong with that, it just takes some time and will to learn in order to get facts straight.

But your teenager kind of offensive answer kinda validates who's the smart one here and who isn't.

cheers

[pusher for life]

at Vulturetards who are forcing their limits to say that Ferrer is actually an offensive player etc.

Guys calm down. You can like him, there's nothing wrong with that. But there is no need to define him as an attacking player. Because he is not.

Vulture is a defensive-minded player who relies on his stamina. Not to mention the fact that he generally wins his matches thanks to his opponents' mistakes.

I had said during the US OPEN. Even Jack Sock, on his day, can easily blow Vulture off the court.

[Sanya]

Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank

Sorry, but surely it cannot only be me who thinks this post is arguably the worst post on MTF ever?

Fuck me, make sure you get the snip because it'd be a crime if you were allowed to reproduce.

No. Pusher for life says hi.

I agree with latso that mainly Ferrer has bigger talent as spotsman overall. Though it`s irrelevant to imagine him be able to succeed in other kind of sports or not as he is tennis player. End of story.

[Orange Wombat]

Sure, Ferrer's game is not exciting to watch, yet there are players out there who are 100x duller to watch. For example Dull, or Monaco, or Simon, or Ramos.

At least Ferrer plays attacking tennis.

[Wing Man Frank]

Originally Posted by latso

Often people confuse hard work, dedication, humility and other abilities or qualities with talent.

There is nothing wrong with that, it just takes some time and will to learn in order to get facts straight.

But your teenager kind of offensive answer kinda validates who's the smart one here and who isn't.

cheers

All you have proven so far is that you have the intelligence of a gnat and that you do not understand what the word talent means.

But carry on, I enjoy watching someone dig his own grave.

[Action Jackson]

Pusher for life and Lenders don't count. As for Ferrer he has made the absolute most of his game and that's good enough.

[End da Game]

have a feeling vulture will win his masters

[GOATsol]

Ferrer does not deserve a masters.

[stebs]

Originally Posted by latso

Often people confuse hard work, dedication, humility and other abilities or qualities with talent.

Far more often, people conflate having the qualities you mention, with NOT having genuine talent and skill at a craft. Ferrer is one of the most accurate players on tour, he can hit the same spot on the court with the inside out FH over and over again. When people with more aesthetic motions do the exact same thing, it's talent, when Ferrer does it, it's hard work and dedication. Ferrer can out-rally the majority of the tour because of his accuracy, it isn't spectacular, but many of those skills are entirely tennis related (hand-eye, racquet head control).

[latso]

Originally Posted by stebs

Far more often, people conflate having the qualities you mention, with NOT having genuine talent and skill at a craft. Ferrer is one of the most accurate players on tour, he can hit the same spot on the court with the inside out FH over and over again. When people with more aesthetic motions do the exact same thing, it's talent, when Ferrer does it, it's hard work and dedication. Ferrer can out-rally the majority of the tour because of his accuracy, it isn't spectacular, but many of those skills are entirely tennis related (hand-eye, racquet head control).

That's where i disagree. I believe this ability is formed with hard work and it doesn't take talent.

When we are talking about a repetitive action - it couldn't be talent the way i understand this notion.

For me talent in tennis is mostly being able to do unordinary shots or decision, with a high effectiveness rate.

This is what makes tennis exciting and this is why ppl tend to prefer talented players compared to hard working players.

To make a crazy drop shot, hit a sharp angled diagonal passing shot when the only possible at first sight way is to go down the line, to slide a speedy DTL BH slice instead of the usual and obvious lifted cross court, to have the touch to take advantage of a low volley position, make a lob from a BH smatch position, blow a 180kph FH DTL, try a return of serve drop shot, etc.

Thinking and acting out of the box, and doing it with precision - that's what tennis talent is in my eyes.

Ferrer won't ever try anything different than the ordinary and safe shot, nothing different than his gameplan and will always do the same things over and over again.

He'd do them with precision and enough power, just as trained thousands of hours. But that ain't talent, these are other character qualities and abilities, things that are different from my point of view.

Footwork is not a talent. It's an ability that you work on and master with trainings. Regularity/consistency is not a talent. Imho these are not talents.

And i don't know why ppl think i'm dissing Ferru by saying this

I respect the guy but he's not exciting for me. Smth like Angela Merkel f.e. I can't say she's sexy ffs But she's a very smart woman and a very influential politician. That's all.

[Mark Lenders]

I just read this thread and I'm glad most people have shown to be sensible and inteligent and not easily swayed by the mindless propaganda spewed by the Ferrertards.

Yes, Ferrer winning (if he does win) a Masters where ALL of the seven best players in the world tanked/withdrew will sure silence the haters, he will go from vulture to GOAT contender if he completes the heroic feat of beating tanking Tsonga, washed up doubles specialist Llodra and challenger level big server Janowicz to win a Masters

[misty1]

was there even a need to ask? they havent shut up the whole time paris has taken place

[Wing Man Frank]

Originally Posted by latso

That's where i disagree. I believe this ability is formed with hard work and it doesn't take talent.

When we are talking about a repetitive action - it couldn't be talent the way i understand this notion.

For me talent in tennis is mostly being able to do unordinary shots or decision, with a high effectiveness rate.

This is what makes tennis exciting and this is why ppl tend to prefer talented players compared to hard working players.

To make a crazy drop shot, hit a sharp angled diagonal passing shot when the only possible at first sight way is to go down the line, to slide a speedy DTL BH slice instead of the usual and obvious lifted cross court, to have the touch to take advantage of a low volley position, make a lob from a BH smatch position, blow a 180kph FH DTL, try a return of serve drop shot, etc.

Thinking and acting out of the box, and doing it with precision - that's what tennis talent is in my eyes.

Ferrer won't ever try anything different than the ordinary and safe shot, nothing different than his gameplan and will always do the same things over and over again.

He'd do them with precision and enough power, just as trained thousands of hours. But that ain't talent, these are other character qualities and abilities, things that are different from my point of view.

Footwork is not a talent. It's an ability that you work on and master with trainings. Regularity/consistency is not a talent. Imho these are not talents.

And i don't know why ppl think i'm dissing Ferru by saying this

I respect the guy but he's not exciting for me. Smth like Angela Merkel f.e. I can't say she's sexy ffs But she's a very smart woman and a very influential politician. That's all.

The sad bit is you actually spent time on that post.

[stebs]

Originally Posted by latso

For me talent in tennis is mostly being able to do unordinary shots or decision, with a high effectiveness rate.

And i don't know why ppl think i'm dissing Ferru by saying this :confused

You're entitled to your opinion, I generally don't like the word 'talent' as applied to sport anyway, I think it is usually ill defined. At least you've given a definition, and I can't tell you it's wrong, but it is certainly unusual. You're definition of 'talent in tennis' completely excludes the majority of the skills that are used to play the game, imo, this makes of limited use.

[Myrre]

Originally Posted by latso

That's where i disagree. I believe this ability is formed with hard work and it doesn't take talent.

When we are talking about a repetitive action - it couldn't be talent the way i understand this notion.

For me talent in tennis is mostly being able to do unordinary shots or decision, with a high effectiveness rate.

This is what makes tennis exciting and this is why ppl tend to prefer talented players compared to hard working players.

To make a crazy drop shot, hit a sharp angled diagonal passing shot when the only possible at first sight way is to go down the line, to slide a speedy DTL BH slice instead of the usual and obvious lifted cross court, to have the touch to take advantage of a low volley position, make a lob from a BH smatch position, blow a 180kph FH DTL, try a return of serve drop shot, etc.

Thinking and acting out of the box, and doing it with precision - that's what tennis talent is in my eyes.

Ferrer won't ever try anything different than the ordinary and safe shot, nothing different than his gameplan and will always do the same things over and over again.

He'd do them with precision and enough power, just as trained thousands of hours. But that ain't talent, these are other character qualities and abilities, things that are different from my point of view.

Footwork is not a talent. It's an ability that you work on and master with trainings. Regularity/consistency is not a talent. Imho these are not talents.

And i don't know why ppl think i'm dissing Ferru by saying this

I respect the guy but he's not exciting for me. Smth like Angela Merkel f.e. I can't say she's sexy ffs But she's a very smart woman and a very influential politician. That's all.

Hard work alone can only take you to a certain level and that level is nowhere near no.5 in the world. Of course he's got talent. I hate the guy's tennis but claiming he doesn't have talent is preposterous.