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Old 04-04-2013, 04:12 PM   #211
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Default Re: Rank the 'clutch gene' of the top 10

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Originally Posted by GOATERER View Post
So, it's official... the 0.14 proves Rafa is soooo much more "clutch" than Roger

Let's review these statistics, whatever they are, in 5 years when Rafa is at Roger's age now

In the meantime, "clutch" means little unless you end up winning the GS when it's all said and done, can't complain about Roger's haul there
You misunderstood the 'overall' stat. I think that's just overall match winning percentage.

And for the MP lovers above you, there's more to being clutch than a handful of match point saved matches
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:13 PM   #212
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Default Re: Rank the 'clutch gene' of the top 10

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Radalek - do you have a breakdown of who they've been against?
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=89544

All credit to Voo as usual
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:33 PM   #213
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Default Re: Rank the 'clutch gene' of the top 10

The idea of a clutch gene is overrated and I think actually does a disservice to the talent of the likes of Nadal and Djokovic.
If you are the best player in the world you have the confidence that your game is going to get it done and you play consistently at that level.
If you know that playing your best isn't going to win the match it is harder to stay mentally focused and even if you did the casual tennis fan wouldn't notice because you just lost.
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:41 PM   #214
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Default Re: Rank the 'clutch gene' of the top 10

Nadal is least clutch out of top 10. If he had clutchness, he would win at least 18 slams by now with the talent he has. Only chokes prevented him from dominating in the way he should have when not injured.
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:44 PM   #215
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Default Re: Rank the 'clutch gene' of the top 10

Nadal is easily the most clutch, the only times he isn't clutch he is injured so therefore unfairly hindered
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:25 PM   #216
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Default Re: Rank the 'clutch gene' of the top 10

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Originally Posted by StevieMardenboro View Post
The idea of a clutch gene is overrated and I think actually does a disservice to the talent of the likes of Nadal and Djokovic.
If you are the best player in the world you have the confidence that your game is going to get it done and you play consistently at that level.
If you know that playing your best isn't going to win the match it is harder to stay mentally focused and even if you did the casual tennis fan wouldn't notice because you just lost.
But is in some matches you don't "play consistently at that level" but suddenly start playing best in crucial moments. That's clutch gene. Remember Djokovic vs Wawrinka at last AO. Nole won it mainly due to his superior mental skills at the crucial stage, even though he was definitely below his level (esp. in first 2 sets) and Stan was on fire.

Top players are generally mentally tough but Nole is still clearly above the rest of the top.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:27 PM   #217
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Default Re: Rank the 'clutch gene' of the top 10

Oh it has got to be roger federer, his break point conversion rate is just superb.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:44 PM   #218
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Default Re: Rank the 'clutch gene' of the top 10

1. Djokovic 1. Nadal (Both never give up, unless they are tanking.)
3. Murray (Dude doesn't give up)
4. Del Po

5. Ferrer

6. Fed (Typically just wins or loses. I wouldn't call him clutch.

7. Berdych



8.Tipsaveric
9. Tsonga





10. Gasquet (I mean cmon...)
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:58 PM   #219
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Default Re: Rank the 'clutch gene' of the top 10

Tsonga's too erratic to really quantify in this way imo. Plenty of times he's brought his best during big points but he's just inconsistent in every way.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:36 PM   #220
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Default Re: Rank the 'clutch gene' of the top 10

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But is in some matches you don't "play consistently at that level" but suddenly start playing best in crucial moments. That's clutch gene. Remember Djokovic vs Wawrinka at last AO. Nole won it mainly due to his superior mental skills at the crucial stage, even though he was definitely below his level (esp. in first 2 sets) and Stan was on fire.
I'd have to disagree with this. I believe Novak won it mainly due to his tennis skills and athleticism which was always superior to Wawrinka's. Novak's mental game didn't go walkabout during that match, it was Stan's redlining his game and finding his range that pushed Novak to the limit. I believe the mental aspect is being overrated in matches like the aforementioned. You can have the best mental game but if your actual skills limit your ability to execute, or if the other guy is just plain better, it's all for naught. Novak won mainly because his skills are greater than Wawrinka's.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:28 AM   #221
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Default Re: Rank the 'clutch gene' of the top 10

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Tsonga's too erratic to really quantify in this way imo. Plenty of times he's brought his best during big points but he's just inconsistent in every way.
Yup, Tsonga is actually pretty clutch, especially on serve - he has a bit of serving huge under pressure. I actually find him far less erratic on big points than he is in general - for instance he saved a championship point in Marseille vs Berdych with a backhand down the line off balance, a shot he rarely ever manages to pull off even from better positions. He goes for it on big points just like every other points, and just like in every other point sometimes it works, others it doesn't.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:33 AM   #222
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Default Re: Rank the 'clutch gene' of the top 10

He's clutch when he's screwed in a match that he can still hang on to (eg. down a set or two, but still on serve in the subsequent set) - but the times he's converted these clutch moments into wins, is rare. And when he's getting outplayed, he just gives up completely.
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:04 AM   #223
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Default Re: Rank the 'clutch gene' of the top 10

Nadal and Djokovic are different under pressure. Nadal plays his usual game, while Djokovic tries to be more aggressive which is frequently good due to his opponent's tightness but can also produce to UEs. Djokovic plays rallies on big points much better, but they are close in my mind because Nadal is a pretty clutch server while Djokovic is not and double faults fairly often trying to go big on 2nd serves. Still, slight edge to Djokovic. del Potro is up there too, very clutch, his record in close matches may not be as good due to awful endurance. There are 4 severe chokers in top 10 at present with Berdych, Ferrer, Tipsy, and Gasquet (though the last has been better lately)
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:20 AM   #224
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Default Re: Rank the 'clutch gene' of the top 10

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Sorry but I don't think Nadal is that tough considering his high-percentage game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGy0x3KKc6c
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:18 AM   #225
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Default Re: Rank the 'clutch gene' of the top 10

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Nadal and Djokovic are different under pressure. Nadal plays his usual game, while Djokovic tries to be more aggressive which is frequently good due to his opponent's tightness but can also produce to UEs. Djokovic plays rallies on big points much better, but they are close in my mind because Nadal is a pretty clutch server while Djokovic is not and double faults fairly often trying to go big on 2nd serves. Still, slight edge to Djokovic. del Potro is up there too, very clutch, his record in close matches may not be as good due to awful endurance. There are 4 severe chokers in top 10 at present with Berdych, Ferrer, Tipsy, and Gasquet (though the last has been better lately)
A big misunderstanding that Nadal just plays his usual game. The reason he has been great on big points is because he mixes it up more. The serve down the T is something he often produces on break points. And he really ups the aggression usually, catching players off guard.
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