[out_grinder]

Anytime you get a player who wins matches mainly with his brain rather than by bashing the ball as hard as he can, he is hated and called a pusher.

It got me thinking: does this happen in any other sport?

Do football (soccer for you Americans) fans moan about the players trying the construct plays and just wishing that the players would kick the ball...harder. Wherever they are on the pitch, who cares - just kick the football harder. That's fun to watch.

Do boxing fans complain when their favorite is ducking and weaving all over the place, being a strategic nightmare to fight against? Do they just want to see two people stand still, taking punches to the face, and punching the other guy harder in the face?

Do golf fans just want their guy to hit the ball harder - regardless of how effective it is? Drive the ball harder. Putt the ball harder.

What about basketball? Screw tactics - just throw the ball harder.

Tennis may well be the most tactically dumb sports ever - all the fans want to see is that fuzzy yellow ball hit harder and harder.

[Freak3yman84]

Yes, in other sports tacticians are as highly regarded as ball bashers are regarded in tennis.

[August]

Isn't ballbashing a tactic?

[Freak3yman84]

Originally Posted by August

Isn't ballbashing a tactic?

He's on to me...

[The Bulldog]

I love tacticians in tennis. I appreciate all the styles in all sports.

My favourite player in golf is Nicolas Colsaerts, who is the longest off the tee, equivalent to someone like Raonic in tennis. However I like a lot of guys with other styles, too.

So really, I don't judge people on what gamestyle they play, but it if they execute it in a pleasing manner. For instance, Simon is regarded as an ugly player, but I love the way he excites his style. He really toys with his opponents.

[Freak3yman84]

Originally Posted by The Bulldog

So really, I don't judge people on what gamestyle they play, but it if they execute it in a pleasing manner. For instance, Simon is regarded as an ugly player, but I love the way he excites his style. He really toys with his opponents.

I full on agree with this. Same thing with Santoro, he probably had the least technically pleasing game ever in tennis but the way he would piss his opponents off was amazing.

[Ilovetheblues_86]

Dont be that naive OP, is not only about hitting the ball harder but knowing how to attack. The biggest critics of Simon, Monfils and sometimes Murray said that instead of trying to attack some balls they used to just push another ball to the other court.

What happens is that since the courts got slower serve and volley isnt used anymore hence you cant simply hit a strong approach shot and go to the net knowing that your opponent wood racket and the court surface will help you win 50% the point.

What fans dislike isnt exacly tactics, but the fact that on hard courts defensive tennis is getting advantage over attacking tennis. Players with 30 winners can lose against players with 6 winners if they make, lets say, 30 unforced errors vs 4 or 5.

If you get a carpet court or a faster grass court, the players would have to attack more, even by ballbashing or going to the net. The 80's and the 90's made fans like Boris Beckers and McEnroes, not Simons.

Mybe you can say tennis wasnt very tactical, which means, since the courts were fast, players just had to serve and go to the net, but you cant say that a serve and volley style doesnt use tactics.

Its the appeal a risky game has. The same as if in football someone puts a 3-4-3 tactic or something.

[Filo V.]

Originally Posted by out_grinder

Anytime you get a player who wins matches mainly with his brain rather than by bashing the ball as hard as he can, he is hated and called a pusher.

It got me thinking: does this happen in any other sport?

Do football (soccer for you Americans) fans moan about the players trying the construct plays and just wishing that the players would kick the ball...harder. Wherever they are on the pitch, who cares - just kick the football harder. That's fun to watch.

Do boxing fans complain when their favorite is ducking and weaving all over the place, being a strategic nightmare to fight against? Do they just want to see two people stand still, taking punches to the face, and punching the other guy harder in the face?

Do golf fans just want their guy to hit the ball harder - regardless of how effective it is? Drive the ball harder. Putt the ball harder.

What about basketball? Screw tactics - just throw the ball harder.

Tennis may well be the most tactically dumb sports ever - all the fans want to see is that fuzzy yellow ball hit harder and harder.

Bolded part is a yes. The rest is a no. And most tennis fans on tennis websites are not real tennis fans, and more like bandwagon fans, and people who have limited understanding of the sport itself. You will not find an abundance of real tennis fans on sites like this.

[End da Game]

well in football (soccer), theres this cancer called 'parking the bus' which is equivalent to pushing in tennis

what that basically means that one team go super-defensive, they don't even bother to attack, they just camp around their own half to defend. Matches like these are complete borefest, nothing ever happens, and less talented teams are effectively encouraged to play this disgusting type of football because unlike tennis, you can get a draw in football, so lesser teams (the david ferrer of football) opt for this cancerous tactic

[Lopez]

I love tacticians. However, some people tend to also call their favorite players taciticians without real merit, just to shift focus away from the fact that they are, in fact, pushers.

[Time Violation]

Originally Posted by out_grinder

Anytime you get a player who wins matches mainly with his brain rather than by bashing the ball as hard as he can, he is hated and called a pusher.

It got me thinking: does this happen in any other sport?

Do football (soccer for you Americans) fans moan about the players trying the construct plays and just wishing that the players would kick the ball...harder. Wherever they are on the pitch, who cares - just kick the football harder. That's fun to watch.

Do boxing fans complain when their favorite is ducking and weaving all over the place, being a strategic nightmare to fight against? Do they just want to see two people stand still, taking punches to the face, and punching the other guy harder in the face?

Yes and no I guess In boxing, it's always impressive to see a KO in the first or second round, even though it's a wasted money for those who came expecting to see 12 rounds. In basketball - some teams play run'n'gun basketball, which should be equivalent of ballbashing and equally (in)effective

Perhaps "pushing" is more slammed in tennis than in other sports, however I don't think this forum is actually a good example of representative opinion in tennis, it has its own favorites, biases etc.

[BauerAlmeida]

Originally Posted by End da Game

well in football (soccer), theres this cancer called 'parking the bus' which is equivalent to pushing in tennis

what that basically means that teams go super-defensive, they don't even bother to attack, they just camp around their own half to defend. Matches like these are complete borefest, nothing ever happens

THIS.

Clearly in all sports, the ones who attack and try to win are regarded higher than the ones who defend (pushers in tennis).

For example, in football, the team that is most acclaimed and admired in the world (Barcelona) is clearly an attacking team and when they lost to Chelsea the last Champions League or to Inter in 2010 most of the football fans were angry because they were defeated by teams who "parked the bus" and barely set foot on the opposite box.

[shadows]

In football you routinely see dislike for the way certain teams play. A team who's overly defensive and tries to just sneak in a goal somewhere will often be criticised for it, similarly teams who just kick the ball forwards and hope their forwards can get on the end of it occasionally to find goals find criticism too.

Even a team like Spain who get a ton of praise for the technical and beautiful nature of their football came under lots of accusations during Euro 2012 this year for being boring.

It's just a fact of sports; people will always have favourite styles of play, types of personalities, or whatever else. No one will ever like exactly the same thing. I do think people tend to be more engaged with the most immediately exciting form of play though.

[BackhandDTL]

On the matter of pushing v. tactics:

I think that, for anyone who has played or "studied" tennis, there's a pretty obvious difference between tactical play and pushing. You can tell when a player has a specific idea about what he wants to do with a ball, and when they are hitting it simply to get it back in play. The latter rarely ever actually happens on a pro tour level. It happens, but not nearly to the extent that the word gets tossed around.

Unfortunately, a lot of tactical tennis, particularly when combined with defensive efforts, is dismissed as pushing. So as a whole, I would say yes, it's not easily accepted in tennis.

[MuzzahLovah]

I disagree. Most tennis fans appreciate point construction, only on MTF where mouth breathers rule do they prefer bashing and always root for giants over little guys.