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Old 10-30-2012, 06:05 PM   #91
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Default Re: Rank the forehands of the top 10 from best to worst

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapeod View Post
In terms of greatness and overall ability at their best:

Federer
----
Tsonga
Djokovic
Del Potro
Nadal
Berdych
----
Murray
----
Ferrer
Tipsarevic
----
Monaco


Nadal's forehand has a lot of spin and is better than it would be because he's left handed. It's nothing special.
You think Djokovic and Tsonga's FH are better than Nadal's and Del Potro's ? Why am I not surprised ?
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:05 PM   #92
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Default Re: Rank the forehands of the top 10 from best to worst

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Originally Posted by duong View Post
Gonzo was also able to play forehands with a good margin and spin, he had several different forehands but he took more risks than Del Po, that's true, esp. because his backhand was less good, and his defense as well.
Yes, it's more down to his (Gonzalez) game that he felt being very aggressive with the forehand was a necessary strategy, notably Federer did not feel that way all the time which is why he sometimes was more cautious with his forehand. I personally wouldn't like to choose between Del Potro and Gonzalez at their 'peak' level, but it certainly appears Del Potro is going to provide a more consistent high level than Gonzalez was able to do.

Quote:
One of the best matches Fed has ever played imo was the final of Madrid Masters series indoors 2006 against Gonzalez and I can tell you that Fed showed the class of his forehand in this match. I'm always surprised that people don't remember that match so much whereas I hear so much of Roddick's match in AO 2007, because that Madrid final was of the same level (however shorter) and against a player who was better in rallies.
Gonzalez was already at a very high level at the tail end of 2006 as well. Good times with the five set finals, probably the recent change I resent the most in tennis.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:06 PM   #93
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Default Re: Rank the forehands of the top 10 from best to worst

Gonzo's more explosive, Del Potro's is more about consistent length/power.

I would have Gonzo at 2 easily if he was a top 10 player now.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:09 PM   #94
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Default Re: Rank the forehands of the top 10 from best to worst

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapeod View Post
In terms of greatness and overall ability at their best:

Federer
----
Tsonga
Djokovic
Del Potro
Nadal
Berdych
----
Murray
----
Ferrer
Tipsarevic
----
Monaco


Nadal's forehand has a lot of spin and is better than it would be because he's left handed. It's nothing special.
As a fellow hater, you criminally underrate Nadal
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:10 PM   #95
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Default Re: Rank the forehands of the top 10 from best to worst

1) Federer
2) Nadal
3) DP
4) Djokovic
5) Berdych
6) Tsonga
7) Ferrer
8) Murray
9) Monaco
10) Tipsarevic
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:11 PM   #96
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Default Re: Rank the forehands of the top 10 from best to worst

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
True. But while it might sound exaggerated, JMDP basically became a top player by hitting FHs to the middle of the court again, again and again and seeing opponents inevitably either being unable to cope or just leave a short ball. It is a strategy that works against everyone bar a handful of players, which imo is a testament to what a great shot it is. It doesn't need to be a super offensive almost 'all or nothing' shot to win matches/be dominating.
I disagree with that presentation of Del Po as a "fully forehand-oriented player" (which Gonzo was in a way) : at his best Del Po used the backhand nearly as much as the forehand.

And I disagree with that presentation that he can fully control a rally with only forehands to the center of the court : the opponents are usually able to send balls back to his backhand and he doesn't have such a great footwork that he can turn his backhand like ... David Ferrer (or Lendl by the way was a little bit like that when the game was less fast).

No Del Po isn't just a great forehand and is much less oriented to the forehand than Gonzo was. At his best he controlled rallies also with powerful and well-oriented backhands. But he's not been at his best this year, which is why his backhand has been rated so low in the other poll, and why his forehand looks less impressive as well imo.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:11 PM   #97
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Default Re: Rank the forehands of the top 10 from best to worst

You know, I think 8 of the top 10 are 8 of the top 10 forehands period
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:13 PM   #98
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Post Re: Rank the forehands of the top 10 from best to worst

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Originally Posted by stebs View Post
Bearing in mind his serve is not exceptional, his backhand is not exceptional and his return is not exceptional, it is totally ridiculous that he could have achieved what he has if the forehand was really 'nothing special'. Obviously Nadal's got unbelievable movement, but realistically, you don't get to be one of the best baseliners of all time without a seriously special shot. Be aware that at his peak, Nadal clearly has a greater winning % of baseline points than Federer did at his peak (crudely assuming first serve points are greatly effected by the quality of the serves, for instance, a big serve and FH put away wouldn't count as a 'baseline point' to me). Statistically, there is a very strong argument for deeming Nadal as the best baseline point player ever. It's ludicrous that some people put him at #7 or 8 on the BH list and around #5 here. How the hell do you people imagine he's consistently defeating most players around him? With superior movement and mental strength? I'm sorry, but those two factors do not suffice for the incredible career of Nadal.
What I mean is his forehand is better than it would be if he was right handed. Being left handed has always been something that makes Nadal as good as he is. It's one of the reasons he's beaten Roger so many times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
You think Djokovic and Tsonga's FH are better than Nadal's and Del Potro's ? Why am I not surprised ?
I didn't put them in any specific order. I put them in groups. Roger is a definite 1st, Murray is a definite 7th and Monaco is a definite 10th. That's it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djokovicgonzalez View Post
As a fellow hater, you criminally underrate Nadal
No, I don't.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:14 PM   #99
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Default Re: Rank the forehands of the top 10 from best to worst

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Originally Posted by djokovicgonzalez View Post
You know, I think 8 of the top 10 are 8 of the top 10 forehands period
Quite agree with this, it is a very strong top 10 forehand wise.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:16 PM   #100
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Default Re: Rank the forehands of the top 10 from best to worst

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Originally Posted by djokovicgonzalez View Post
You know, I think 8 of the top 10 are 8 of the top 10 forehands period
Only standout one outside the top 10 that would definitely feature is Verdasco for me, although Almagro and Haas have decent forehands on them as well, certainly no worse than Murray/Tipsy's and better than Monaco's.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:17 PM   #101
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Default Re: Rank the forehands of the top 10 from best to worst

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Originally Posted by Sapeod View Post
What I mean is his forehand is better than it would be if he was right handed. Being left handed has always been something that makes Nadal as good as he is. It's one of the reasons he's beaten Roger so many times.
Maybe it has such a big impact, maybe not. Either way, the forehand is exceptional and quite clearly a long way ahead of Tsonga, Djokovic, Berdych (JMDP is closer, though I still think overall Nadal's is more effective).
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:19 PM   #102
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Default Re: Rank the forehands of the top 10 from best to worst

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I disagree with that presentation of Del Po as a "fully forehand-oriented player" : at his best Del Po used the backhand nearly as much as the forehand.

And I disagree with that presentation that he can fully control a rally with only forehands to the center of the court : the opponents are usually able to send balls back to his backhand and he doesn't have such a great footwork that he can turn his backhand like ... David Ferrer (or Lendl by the way was a little bit like that when the game was less fast).

No Del Po isn't just a great forehand and is much less oriented to the forehand than Gonzo was. At his best he controlled rallies also with the backhand. But he's not been at his best this year.
He's not all-FH of course, but his FH is the only truly world class (ie among the best) aspect of his game (although the serve seems to be steadily getting there).

Ferrer is one of the few who can deal with his FH, 99% of the players on tour can't. That's part of the reason he struggles vs Ferrer, his default strategy doesn't work.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:20 PM   #103
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Default Re: Rank the forehands of the top 10 from best to worst

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Quite agree with this, it is a very strong top 10 forehand wise.
comparing to previous eras, I'm not sure, esp. as with new rackets it's possible to make so many shots which were impossible in the past.

I think Nadal and Fed are among the best forehands of all times, and Del Po might be if his old forehand consistently came back.

But the rest ... the same could be said for the backhand by the way, Djokovic and Murray have some of the best backhands of all times, and Berdych has a great one as well.

But maybe I misunderstood the point if it's comparing to the other players' forehands, it's another topic.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:22 PM   #104
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Default Re: Rank the forehands of the top 10 from best to worst

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Only standout one outside the top 10 that would definitely feature is Verdasco for me, although Almagro and Haas have decent forehands on them as well, certainly no worse than Murray/Tipsy's and better than Monaco's.
Yeah, Verdasco is who I was thinking of. I'd take out Tipsy for sure, and Monaco and Murray are both borderline but I think I'd leave Murray in and take Monaco out and replace him with Almagro (Almagro is probably top 10 serve, fh, and bh. If only he made more than 40% of returns)
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:24 PM   #105
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Default Re: Rank the forehands of the top 10 from best to worst

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
He's not all-FH of course, but his FH is the only truly world class (ie among the best) aspect of his game (although the serve seems to be steadily getting there).
his backhand used to be very good as well, powerful, could go down-the-line, and it's great for a two-handed player to have such long arms.
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