[duong]

I think that this topic deserves to be treated separately.

I've said what I said about it in other threads but the topic in other posts was always about the only Federer

Let me be fair about that : imo it's bad for the whole tour and especially for fans, and it may also be bad in the end for Djokovic or Murray, maybe even worse than for Federer (the only one who benefits from it for sure is Nadal as his opponents will get less ATP points while he's absent) :

- Djokovic, Murray and Berdych decided not to play Basel (Djokovic had played there 3 previous years and Murray had entered) to avoid playing 3 weeks in a row Basel+Paris+WTF(+Davis cup final for Berdych) ;

- Federer withdrew from Paris whereas he's the title holder and indoor hardcourts are his favourite conditions ;

- Tsonga retired after 4 games in valencia because his priority was PAris and the WTF ;

- Del Potro we will see but I would be surprised if he went further than R1 in Paris after winning Vienna then Basel, considering his past with injuries it would be stupid from him imo to fully play Paris ;

- Djokovic, Murray, Berdych, Tsonga and anyone who will go far in Paris and then will play the WTF may have problems in the WTF, which is a very tough competition where you have to be good from the beginning

This is not a new topic at all : the decision to cancel the week between Paris-Bercy tournament and the WTF had been taken one year ago after the WTF, and curiously has not been talked much about in this forum. The general idea to lengthen the off-season seemed to be enough to cancel any protest ... whereas this peculiar decision solves nothing on this topic and only makes problems

Personally I had said it was stupid since it was decided.

Federer also said in the beginning of this year that it was a bad decision in his opinion but he had not opposed it because he's old and the youngsters seemed to want it.

Ljubicic said it was also very bad months ago.

I had guessed and many people in France had guessed for months that Fed would not play Paris-Bercy this year because he could never play Basel+Paris+WTF 3 weeks in a row. I fail to remember when Fed played 3 indoor hardcourt tournaments 3 weeks in a row, and Basel and WTF are clearly Fed's priorities. The organizers had guessed his absence for months. The only thing which made it quite a late announcement was the YE number 1 being at stake.

Why was this decision taken ? One year ago, if you remember you had a strong pressure from Nadal and other top-players, notably Djokovic, to make a much shorter year, and there was especially Nadal's plan approved by Djokovic to put the WTF right after the US Open.

According to what we heard a few months ago by Djokovic and more recently by Forget, Paris-Bercy director, this plan is under good way, and Paris-Bercy would be moved to february in 2014 and the south-American season would be moved to the end of the year, after the WTF which would be put soon after the US Open.

But ... in the intermediate period, the ATP made this kind of "compromise" to artificially shorten the season :

- to cancel one week indoor tournaments before Paris ... which is good for many players who are not top-players as they will enjoy one more off-season week

- to cancel the week between Paris and the WTF ... which is good for ... for who exactly ?

This latter decision : cancelling the week between Paris and the WTF was just an easy, lazy and artificial decision : this way the ATP didn't have to erase any tournament from the calendar but by some magic, they created one more week in the off season

... for top-players and only for top-players, that is the Nadal, Djokovic and co. Because the other players are not concerned by the WTF, this decision changes nothing for them and some will keep on playing challengers for weeks !,

Oh what a fantastic improvement by the ATP : one more week in the off-season !

Yes, but ... the whole European indoor season has suffered from that decision.

And sorry from a fan who's going to attend Paris tournament, I don't like it. I'm not like journalists like Mr Tignor who want one more week holidays and say they're tired watching tennis. Paris-Bercy is the only tournament I attend live in the year and like many French fans, I wanted to see Fed once again ... but had guessed for months that I wouldn't.

The fans who wanted to see Djokovic and Murray in Basel or Tsonga in Valencia probably think the same.

[Looner]

duong, you are completely right about this but I don't think you need such a long-winded explanation. Anyone who has any sense understands this decision was not taken with the part of the human body that is designed to do so.

[duong]

Originally Posted by Looner

duong, you are completely right about this but I don't think you need such a long-winded explanation. Anyone who has any sense understands this decision was not taken with the part of the human body that is designed to do so.

I'm not that optimistic, esp. as I've hardly seen this topic discussed in this forum whereas Fed's withdrawal was commented in great lengths.

About the length of my posts, I know what many many people think

Now if somebody wants to discuss that topic, he mustn't stop from doing it just because he's disgusted by who wrote the OP and the length of my post : I just wanted to create a place to discuss that topic, the OP is irrelevant.

But Tignor said in an article how good this was for the Tour, including for fans who are tired of watching too much tennis ... and especially for himself :

Rest time has been eliminated in 2012 to try to give players and fans the longer off-season that so many of us have said we crave

I like the fact that the indoor season no longer lingers all the way through November. As a fan, I think having a significant winter break from the game is a positive; I enjoy it more when it comes back in January

And I'm not sure that everybody understands that in the end it may be bad even for Djokovic, worse than for Fed :

- couldn't play Basel which he could clearly have won when you consider Fed's level there

- may be tired in the WTF

[Looner]

It was(is) a stupid decision but I think it was only done so it'd force Paris to move to February.

It was never viable for the tournament to retain that slot in the calendar if it's played just before the WTF. I mean it's obvious. This has been a complete farce but Nadole have got what they sought.

It's funny how their fans are whining how something should be done about it when we know it's their favs' fault.

[duong]

Originally Posted by Looner

It was(is) a stupid decision but I think it was only done so it'd force Paris to move to February.

It was never viable for the tournament to retain that slot in the calendar if it's played just before the WTF. I mean it's obvious. This has been a complete farce but Nadole have got what they sought.

it was a decision which was made against PAris tournament, which many ones wanted to cancel, that's for sure, but I don't think it was to force them to move to february : actually Paris organizers are looking very much forward to moving to february, they would love that (there are school holidays in France in february as well) but so far the ATP has answered them that "no decision has been taken".

Another possible decision in the end might be ... to just put one less masters 1000 in the calendar, and especially destroy Paris tournament which some players, especially Nadal, dislike.

[DJ Soup]

I think it's fair that Paris should be the victim tournament, because it also has RG for pete's sake

[Pirata.]

Originally Posted by DJ Soup

I think it's fair that Paris should be the victim tournament, because it also has RG for pete's sake

London has Queens, Wimbledon and WTF

[stebs]

Having a calendar structured in such a way that withdrawals from tournaments could be actively predicted is indeed ludicrously weak. People called Tsonga not playing all week in Valencia, people called Federer withdrawing from Paris. Both of those decisions could be predicted simply by noting the ranking of the players involved (such that their expected results in tournaments could be assumed to be very good, playing until the final weekend) and their assumed level of commitment to specific events. I think it's a poor state of affairs.

[redshift36188]

Originally Posted by DJ Soup

I think it's fair that Paris should be the victim tournament, because it also has RG for pete's sake

That's retarded. I don't care what city it's in, I care because it's the only indoor Masters.


This change sucks. Its benefit is completely negligible compared to the harm done.


I'm pretty pissed for Federer not putting Nadal's retarded ideas where they belong - in the trash can.

[DJ Soup]

Originally Posted by Pirata.

London has Queens, Wimbledon and WTF

England invented the game, fair enough

[DJ Soup]

Originally Posted by redshift36188

That's retarded. I don't care what city it's in, I care because it's the only indoor Masters.


This change sucks. Its benefit is completely negligible compared to the harm done.


I'm pretty pissed for Federer not putting Nadal's retarded ideas where they belong - in the trash can.

No, I agree with you, there shouldn't be one, but 2 indoor masters. I'm sick of all this homogenization

[dencod16]

I think it deserves to be before Year end Championships because its Indoor it makes sense, but they should adjust the sched where there are 250 events in between Bercy and YEC and not move it to February.

[finishingmove]

CTRL + F: "Ljubicic".

Credibility : 0.

Exit.

[Kat_YYZ]

I don't mind the idea of extending the off-season, but not in this way. It's a slapped-together solution.

Don't forget that top 30 players are required to play four 500-level tournaments, and one of those must be after the US Open. So your only chance is Beijing/Tokyo or Basel/Valencia. So the argument that this only hurts Federer and Ferrer because they don't want to skip their home tournaments is false; it hurts every player who still needs to fulfill that requirement.

So for top players, this is like putting 3 mandatory tournaments in a row. If you qualify for WTF, obviously you have to play that too (unless you're injured). And if you're part of a team that will contest the Davis Cup final, well, there's another week tacked on (it's likely that a DC finalist team will have at least one top player on it).

This part of the season had become a burden and a bummer, with tired/injured players dragging themselves to the finish line and withdrawing or giving subpar performances wherever they could get away with it. This 'solution' will not help and in fact will only make this problem worse. It will lower the quality of the tennis in these tournaments and will increase the number of withdrawals, which is bad for the ticket revenues of Paris and Basel/Valencia.

[Puschkin]

Originally Posted by duong

- Djokovic, Murray and Berdych decided not to play Basel (Djokovic had played there 3 previous years and Murray had entered) to avoid playing 3 weeks in a row Basel+Paris+WTF(+Davis cup final for Murray) ;

Did Murray change his nationality?