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View Poll Results: WWW ATP Newcomer of the Year?

Goffin 29 39.19%
Janowicz 21 28.38%
Klizan 21 28.38%
Kuznetsov 3 4.05%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-21-2012, 02:31 PM   #61
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Default Re: WWW ATP Newcomer of the Year?

There's a difference between challenger tour and ATP tour. Baker was never really a serious challenger player, playing pretty much all of his futures and challengers in the USA and hardly progressing in them either.

I think ATP awards are non-applicable to those competing in challengers.
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:40 PM   #62
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Default Re: WWW ATP Newcomer of the Year?

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Originally Posted by Burrow View Post
There's a difference between challenger tour and ATP tour. Baker was never really a serious challenger player, playing pretty much all of his futures and challengers in the USA and hardly progressing in them either.

I think ATP awards are non-applicable to those competing in challengers.
I'm pretty sure you can't be nominated for 2 awards either, and in this case comeback player of the year much better suits Baker than newcomer because he only got hype because of his comeback story, and he would have gotten little to no hype if he had just climbed the rankings normally.
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Originally Posted by Chris Kuerten View Post
Freakyman is a mythical figure who went bat shit insane during the 2012 ACC and got himself permbanned and the whole ACC with him.

He then forced an unban by sleeping with the entire moderation crew and these days you can see him post in a mellowed down version, while being under the influence of strong medication.
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:42 PM   #63
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Default Re: WWW ATP Newcomer of the Year?

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Originally Posted by Freak3yman84 View Post
I'm pretty sure you can't be nominated for 2 awards either, and in this case comeback player of the year much better suits Baker than newcomer because he only got hype because of his comeback story, and he would have gotten little to no hype if he had just climbed the rankings normally.
He was never an ATP player. Comeback to playing competitive tennis yes, but comeback to the ATP? He'd had to have been playing on the ATP tour circuit in the first place to come back to it.
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:44 PM   #64
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Default Re: WWW ATP Newcomer of the Year?

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He was never an ATP player. Comeback to playing competitive tennis yes, but comeback to the ATP? He'd had to have been playing on the ATP tour circuit in the first place to come back to it.
How is that relevant? I mean of course that it was his comeback to professional tennis. Challenger players do count for these awards, look at the nominees here: Kuznetsov is a nominee and he plays mostly Challengers.
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Originally Posted by Chris Kuerten View Post
Freakyman is a mythical figure who went bat shit insane during the 2012 ACC and got himself permbanned and the whole ACC with him.

He then forced an unban by sleeping with the entire moderation crew and these days you can see him post in a mellowed down version, while being under the influence of strong medication.
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:49 PM   #65
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Default Re: WWW ATP Newcomer of the Year?

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Originally Posted by Freak3yman84 View Post
How is that relevant? I mean of course that it was his comeback to professional tennis. Challenger players do count for these awards, look at the nominees here: Kuznetsov is a nominee and he plays mostly Challengers.
Kuznetsov is indeed a newcomer to the ATP because he's eligible to participate in ATP tournaments and has been competing in ATP tournaments, more so than Brian Baker initially competed in in 2004 and 2005. I'm making an argument that Brian Baker should be eligible for the newcomer award, not comeback player award.

I don't think Kuznetsov would have been considered hadn't he participated in the 5 or 6 ATP events he had entered.

I don't understand how you can come back to something when you were never a part of it in the first place.
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:55 PM   #66
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Default Re: WWW ATP Newcomer of the Year?

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Kuznetsov is indeed a newcomer to the ATP because he's eligible to participate in ATP tournaments and has been competing in ATP tournaments, more so than Brian Baker initially competed in in 2004 and 2005. I'm making an argument that Brian Baker should be eligible for the newcomer award, not comeback player award.

I don't think Kuznetsov would have been considered hadn't he participated in the 5 or 6 ATP events he had entered.

I don't understand how you can come back to something when you were never a part of it in the first place.
Kuznetsov only played 4 ATP level tournaments this year including 2 GS's, so he has barely played ATP tournaments this year. Now let's take a look at Baker's ATP tournaments in 2004: 5 ATP level tournaments So, indeed Baker was just as legitimate of a player as Kuznetsov is now, therefore it's a comeback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kuerten View Post
Freakyman is a mythical figure who went bat shit insane during the 2012 ACC and got himself permbanned and the whole ACC with him.

He then forced an unban by sleeping with the entire moderation crew and these days you can see him post in a mellowed down version, while being under the influence of strong medication.
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:02 PM   #67
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Default Re: WWW ATP Newcomer of the Year?

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Originally Posted by Freak3yman84 View Post
Kuznetsov only played 4 ATP level tournaments this year including 2 GS's, so he has barely played ATP tournaments this year. Now let's take a look at Baker's ATP tournaments in 2004: 5 ATP level tournaments So, indeed Baker was just as legitimate of a player as Kuznetsov is now, therefore it's a comeback
What are you talking about mate?

Kuznetsov is in the newcomer category. They are two different things.

Baker only participated in those tourmaments through wildcards. Kuznetsov is competing through his legitimate ATP ranking. That's the difference. Baker wasn't regularly travelling the TOUR, because he wasn't eligible without the aid of a wildcard. Therefore, in my opinion (and it's probably fact), that he was never an ATP tour player to begin with.
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:08 PM   #68
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Default Re: WWW ATP Newcomer of the Year?

I voted for Klizan
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:27 PM   #69
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Default Re: WWW ATP Newcomer of the Year?

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Originally Posted by Burrow View Post
What are you talking about mate?

Kuznetsov is in the newcomer category. They are two different things.

Baker only participated in those tourmaments through wildcards. Kuznetsov is competing through his legitimate ATP ranking. That's the difference. Baker wasn't regularly travelling the TOUR, because he wasn't eligible without the aid of a wildcard. Therefore, in my opinion (and it's probably fact), that he was never an ATP tour player to begin with.
Kuznetsov received a WC into Umag, a WC into Moscow, and had to qualify into RG and Wimbledon, so he is certainly not "competing through his legitmate ATP ranking." Baker played more ATP tournaments and he was just as legitimate at the ATP level as Kuznetsov is now Not to mention that this year Kuznetsov has 2 wins at the ATP level and in 2004 Baker had 2 as well.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kuerten View Post
Freakyman is a mythical figure who went bat shit insane during the 2012 ACC and got himself permbanned and the whole ACC with him.

He then forced an unban by sleeping with the entire moderation crew and these days you can see him post in a mellowed down version, while being under the influence of strong medication.
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:20 PM   #70
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Default Re: WWW ATP Newcomer of the Year?

I'm talking about competing on the ATP tour right now as of when this award is being decided. It'd be the same case if Kuznetsov went on a 7 year hiatus.

Since when was Baker an ATP tour player?
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:24 PM   #71
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Default Re: WWW ATP Newcomer of the Year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burrow View Post
I'm talking about competing on the ATP tour right now as of when this award is being decided. It'd be the same case if Kuznetsov went on a 7 year hiatus.

Since when was Baker an ATP tour player?
Could you rephrase that? I'm thoroughly confused.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kuerten View Post
Freakyman is a mythical figure who went bat shit insane during the 2012 ACC and got himself permbanned and the whole ACC with him.

He then forced an unban by sleeping with the entire moderation crew and these days you can see him post in a mellowed down version, while being under the influence of strong medication.
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Old 10-21-2012, 07:35 PM   #72
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Default Re: WWW ATP Newcomer of the Year? Mods add a poll please?

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Klizan's been around since 2007.
But he's still "just" 23 and has only just achieved any real familiarity. It's not really uncommon these days. As an example off the top of my head, Soderling turned pro in 2002-2003, but he wasn't on anyone's radar until he trolled Nadal on his way to a five set finish at Wimbledon 2007, 4-5 years later. Dogopolov, similarly, was/is considered a fresh face at 23. Other than special cases, like that so-called "super six" (Djokovic, Murray, et al.), cases like Klizan's have been the norm following the "New Balls" gen.


Anyway, for my part, I'd go with Goffin. As a somewhat jaded fan this year, I didn't follow the late season too closely, so Goffin is probably most notable to me for his RG performances.
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:57 PM   #73
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Default Re: WWW ATP Newcomer of the Year?

Wtf are you talking about? Kuznetsov has the best difference- starting of as 222 in the beginning of the year and finishing of as 72. It's the best improvement. And he is the real newcomer- first time in top 100 in the age of 21 and still going up. My vote goes to him, and I think that people that are saying he can't play tennis seriously have no idea how tennis is played. All these guys are great players, but I think Kuznetsov should get the award because of the difference.
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:18 PM   #74
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Default Re: WWW ATP Newcomer of the Year?

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Wtf are you talking about? Kuznetsov has the best difference- starting of as 222 in the beginning of the year and finishing of as 72. It's the best improvement. And he is the real newcomer- first time in top 100 in the age of 21 and still going up. My vote goes to him, and I think that people that are saying he can't play tennis seriously have no idea how tennis is played. All these guys are great players, but I think Kuznetsov should get the award because of the difference.
I don't think difference is a good measuring stick because its harder to jump from 10 to 5 than 100 to 50, and harder to jump from 100 to 50 that 500 to 300, etc, The jump Klizan made is harder than Kuznetsovs and when you factor in Klizan did it by winning an ATP event and making round 4 at a slam beating Tsonga while Kuznetsov did it through challengers with only 2 ATP wins all year then that's not even close, it's Klizan by a mile
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:32 PM   #75
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Default Re: WWW ATP Newcomer of the Year?

Klizan deserves it more.
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