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Old 10-16-2012, 06:55 PM   #46
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taejin View Post
This is Mugs Tennis Forums. The "Men" you might see in the headline is just to trick innocent people into joining.
Might as well change the name to Ladstennisforums, to weed out those expecting to have seriously mature conversations with seriously mature tennis fans.

Besides, if successful Tennis players are mugs, and the Tennis fans that call them that aren't, then mug is a positive word. Wish I was a mug.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:16 PM   #47
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

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Originally Posted by scarecrows View Post
we all can thank Jaap for putting the word in MTF folklore
yep, here's the answer on thread question also. so many legendary posters permabanned while mugs allowed to ruin this place. mods think they are doing good job but they are actually doing completely opposite. paradox effect...
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:20 PM   #48
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

GM has always been off topic heaven but at least in the past you could have red man's posting, today you are reading fights about who's dad is stronger
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:21 PM   #49
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by samanosuke View Post
GM has always been off topic heaven but at least in the past you could have red man's posting, today you are reading fights about who's dad is stronger
yes...true this...

but also, if you look at your MTF join date, and then look at mine, then you will understand that this gives me the MTF right to call you a mug poster... i am sorry my funny croat friend, it just is this way... and also for wimbledon 2001 too...
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:11 AM   #50
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

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Originally Posted by Kowchi View Post
I feel this term is really bringing the community down. I know I haven't been posting that long, but I have been lurking for a year and realize how nasty and negative that term is. Mug is someone who is bad at tennis, doesn't work hard, and is a bad person. The thing is though, all the so called Mug players, work their asses off almost every year, to play the sport they love. They have lives, families, friends who care about them and love them. Plus they obviously have some sort of talent, to be ranked in tennis.

I feel it is unfair to call any tennis player a mug and I also feel the term is bringing the community down. Every time someone calls a player a mug, an argument ensues, parties bash each other and get off topic, leading to hatred towards fellow members. This policy also goes for other negative nicknames. Nadull, Olderer etc. All cause arguments and negativity.

I feel the community needs to become more critical and respectful in their responses. Also people need to have some more respect for fellow members. I'm not going to point out any names, but you know who you are. Positive changes could happen to this forum, to make it a more positive, accepting environment.



Your thoughts?
You aren't helping. We do not need a serious discussion. We need more fun
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:11 AM   #51
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

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Originally Posted by EliSter View Post
Ah, wise words from one of MTF bigger tards.
As usual, absolute hypocrisy in every stupid ass thing you say. Continue.
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Old 10-17-2012, 04:09 AM   #52
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

I gotta say I'm happy with this threads outcome .

I know understand the MTF infrastructure better. In the future I won't take the negativity too seriously, because according to half the people posting here; it is not serious :P. Also thank you to those who have made this a serious discussion, I appreciate it.

Lastly I've learned a little more about every poster in this thread, who's thoughtful, serious, a joker, a nice guy/gal etc.

Best wishes to y'all
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:03 PM   #53
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

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Originally Posted by tennizen View Post
I have been a poster on this site for over 5 years now and I have been able to do it quite well.

I personally don't understand how much 'serious' discussion there can be on any tennis related topic after a point of time. Most such discussions seem repetitive and superfluous to me. That said, I have always been able to find the information I need, identify a few posters I trust (even if I disagree with what they say) and filter out what I consider useless or at least tolerate it with some detachment and amusement. The onus of finding out your corner lies on you( not you specifically but the generic you)- there's nothing to be gained by lecturing other people to act or behave in a manner that you find conducive or suitable or bemoaning the lack of certain standards. I find that many people who are 'trolls' are that way because they have a certain attitude of lightheartedness- not that they are automatically ignorant just because they don't indulge in repetitive or 'serious' discussions. I also find that most people cannot deal with dissent and differing opinions on a topic and respond to it by reducing the other person to a troll.
Well, I am not criticizing the fact that some discussions are "not serious". I think we should really be careful not to mix everything up. I have no problem with silly discussions and jokes.

Of course it is possible to ignore negativity and stupidity, as in, I'm not going to die, end up crying or in depression, or smash my computer in anger because someone is trolling in a really annoying way.
But still, there's a reason why Internet forums have rules, and why moderators exist.
Using the same logic, it is also perfectly possible to ignore racist abuse, insults, personal attacks and offensive attitudes of all sorts. But these will not be tolerated on most forums.
Why? Because it damages the general atmosphere of a forum, and it makes it less agreeable for most sensible and respectful posters to read that forum.

I also think it's wrong to say that people who complain about trolls are people who are unable to hear an opinion that differs from theirs. As I said, I like debate, and if I do, that's because I'm interested in listening to opinions contrary to mine and discuss them. People who cannot bear to hear opinions that differ from theirs flee from debate, or else, they don't have true "debates" but only bash the opinions they don't like (without having any sort of discussion).

But I believe there is a big difference between expressing opinions and trolling. I mean, for instance, with the anti-Ferrer hate, what bothers me is not that they hate Ferrer. I don't care that they hate Ferrer, it's not my problem really. No one is universally loved and there are always people who dislike the players you like. What's more, there are plenty of nice people on the Ferrer forum to talk to, if I'm looking for people who share my love for Ferrer.

Where I draw the line between expressing opinions and trolling/hating, is when this turns almost into a sort of gratuitous harassment: repeating the same things over and over, going on with this long after it has lost any kind of value (even to those who might find it funny, I'm sure after the 100th time you make the same "vulture" joke, it has ceased to be funny for 99% of posters reading it).
And also, I repeat myself, but it becomes a real problem when it ends up diverting the conversation from the original topic to turn it into a stupid battle of trolls. If I want to discuss one of Ferrer's matches on the general board, I'd like to be able to do that without the conversation turning directly into a "is he a vulture or not" debate. Because it does prevent people from going on with the original discussion if one, then two, then three posters begin a parallel conversation about this.
(and of course this goes for threads about other players that end up in haters vs tards battles).

In other words, I get your point, a mature poster should be able to overlook the stuff they find irritating and focus on the stuff they like, instead of "feeding the trolls" and getting into arguments.
But still, what I mean to say is this: does the fact that it is possible to ignore trolling mean that it's a good thing to let it go on? Wouldn't the atmosphere on the forum be more agreeable, and lead to better quality posts in general, if something was done against those who use constant provocation and re-hash the same old insults and annoying comments over and over?

Now, I don't know, maybe I'm the only one who thinks like this. Maybe some people think the forum would really lose a lot of its value and fun if posters were not allowed to engage in conversations and jokes as valuable as "X is a disgusting vulture" "Y is a talentless mug and anyone who supports him is also a mug" "haha suck it your player lost you're so lame" "Z plays like a WTA player" and so on.
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:00 PM   #54
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophitia36 View Post

Now, I don't know, maybe I'm the only one who thinks like this. Maybe some people think the forum would really lose a lot of its value and fun if posters were not allowed to engage in conversations and jokes as valuable as "X is a disgusting vulture" "Y is a talentless mug and anyone who supports him is also a mug" "haha suck it your player lost you're so lame" "Z plays like a WTA player" and so on.
I have already argued way beyond the usual levels of laziness/seriousness I can handle and so I won't really continue beyond this post, but yes, the fact that many people(the majority on MTF) indulge in this sort of behavior and consider it lighthearted banter is enough indication to me that they prefer things this way. So imo, there are no absolutes about what makes a place better.

I prefer MTF because it doesn't take itself too seriously. Occasionally, it does slip below my standards as well but I infinitely prefer that to a heavily moderated place where every deviation is viewed with shock and horror. And let me assure you that in the past two years or so, MTF moderators have really tightened up. So, much to my disappointment, MTF is actually proceeding in the direction you prefer. If it is still too much for you, I recommend tennis.com.
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:07 PM   #55
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

MTF is both stupid and lacking in seriousness like a site such as Deadspin yet is extremely heavily moderated at the same time. It's a joke.
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:42 PM   #56
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennizen View Post
I have already argued way beyond the usual levels of laziness/seriousness I can handle and so I won't really continue beyond this post, but yes, the fact that many people(the majority on MTF) indulge in this sort of behavior and consider it lighthearted banter is enough indication to me that they prefer things this way. So imo, there are no absolutes about what makes a place better.

I prefer MTF because it doesn't take itself too seriously. Occasionally, it does slip below my standards as well but I infinitely prefer that to a heavily moderated place where every deviation is viewed with shock and horror. And let me assure you that in the past two years or so, MTF moderators have really tightened up. So, much to my disappointment, MTF is actually proceeding in the direction you prefer. If it is still too much for you, I recommend tennis.com.
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I much prefer MTF with all its flaws. But the best site for serious discussion is still tennis-x.com. I have yet to find a forum that matches its high standards. Though some trolls still filter through it, shamefully.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:26 PM   #57
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

I think posters who constantly bash certain players, or in general all players he/she doesn't support, should be banned.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:38 AM   #58
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowchi View Post
I gotta say I'm happy with this threads outcome .

I know understand the MTF infrastructure better. In the future I won't take the negativity too seriously, because according to half the people posting here; it is not serious :P. Also thank you to those who have made this a serious discussion, I appreciate it.

Lastly I've learned a little more about every poster in this thread, who's thoughtful, serious, a joker, a nice guy/gal etc.

Best wishes to y'all
all you need to know Konchi is that if you post something of decent quality you will always get some decent responses in amongst the ocean of shite, though if you post something of muggish quality you will only receive an ocean of shite...
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:10 AM   #59
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennizen View Post
I have already argued way beyond the usual levels of laziness/seriousness I can handle and so I won't really continue beyond this post, but yes, the fact that many people(the majority on MTF) indulge in this sort of behavior and consider it lighthearted banter is enough indication to me that they prefer things this way. So imo, there are no absolutes about what makes a place better.

I prefer MTF because it doesn't take itself too seriously. Occasionally, it does slip below my standards as well but I infinitely prefer that to a heavily moderated place where every deviation is viewed with shock and horror. And let me assure you that in the past two years or so, MTF moderators have really tightened up. So, much to my disappointment, MTF is actually proceeding in the direction you prefer. If it is still too much for you, I recommend tennis.com.
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:29 PM   #60
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

Mark Lenders' and pusher_for_life's posts are sometimes unintentionally hilarious, and the one who I'm laughing at isn't Ferrer but Mark Lenders and pusher_for_life themselves. But I think they now went too far.
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