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Old 10-16-2012, 01:22 AM   #31
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

Don't take MTF (Mugs Tennis Forum) too seriously.

Hope this helps.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:29 AM   #32
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

I don't see the problem with it--it's just fun.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:30 AM   #33
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

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Originally Posted by Kowchi View Post
I'm also surprised at how some of the young adults and adults act. I mean most everyone hear is aged 20-40, I just feel maturity levels would increase with age. But some of the things said are just childish. I realize I'm 20; I may act silly and young sometimes, but I can still show respect and be mature.
This. is. not. real. life. Deal. with. it.

I am almost ready to assume this is the first proper internet forum you've visited. If you visit some of the off-topic threads, you'll see that posters around here are very respectful when they chat to each other (usually).
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:11 AM   #34
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

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Old 10-16-2012, 03:26 AM   #35
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

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Originally Posted by Looner View Post
This. is. not. real. life. Deal. with. it.

I am almost ready to assume this is the first proper internet forum you've visited. If you visit some of the off-topic threads, you'll see that posters around here are very respectful when they chat to each other (usually).
Oh trust me I have been around internet forums before. This is just the worst of the worst, not kidding. Been around American football forums that are nicer then this place .

I will back off though, if it is all just "poking fun" at each other and other players. At face value this place seems nasty, but hey maybe its not.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:29 AM   #36
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

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Originally Posted by tennizen View Post
Also love how most of the people who responded in this thread exclude themselves as if they have no role whatsoever in how this forum shaped up.
That's just my point!

What are these trolls bandwagoning the OP for now. In GM, most of them are in full form.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:58 AM   #37
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

The word mug is not a problem for me, it's become a joke. Probably nobody really thinks those players are hopeless in tennis. It's just a synonym for underperformer or overperformer. If don't play up to your skills, you're a mug. And if don't have great skills and still are on top, you're a mug.

More annoying are nicknames like Olderer and Nadull, whereas even Kneedal is appropriate in some contexts, like "Kneedal probably couldn't have won Wimbledon even if he'd beadten Rosol", that just states he had knee problems.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:44 AM   #38
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

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Originally Posted by Kowchi View Post
I feel this term is really bringing the community down. I know I haven't been posting that long, but I have been lurking for a year and realize how nasty and negative that term is. Mug is someone who is bad at tennis, doesn't work hard, and is a bad person. The thing is though, all the so called Mug players, work their asses off almost every year, to play the sport they love. They have lives, families, friends who care about them and love them. Plus they obviously have some sort of talent, to be ranked in tennis.

I feel it is unfair to call any tennis player a mug and I also feel the term is bringing the community down. Every time someone calls a player a mug, an argument ensues, parties bash each other and get off topic, leading to hatred towards fellow members. This policy also goes for other negative nicknames. Nadull, Olderer etc. All cause arguments and negativity.

I feel the community needs to become more critical and respectful in their responses. Also people need to have some more respect for fellow members. I'm not going to point out any names, but you know who you are. Positive changes could happen to this forum, to make it a more positive, accepting environment.



Your thoughts?
Thanks for this post. At least I now know what a mug actually is. I'd been confused for months now.

And I agree with your post, the word mug is tossed around on this board with such frequency that the term, in my estimation, is meaningless, and those who use are just lazy in doing so.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:57 AM   #39
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

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Originally Posted by tennizen View Post
Also love how most of the people who responded in this thread exclude themselves as if they have no role whatsoever in how this forum shaped up.
I had/have no role whatsoever in how this forum shapes/shaped up.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:13 AM   #40
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

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Originally Posted by GOATsol View Post
I don't see the problem with it--it's just fun.
It's that simple really.

I don't know about others but I post in several philosophy forums and post seriously there but it gets boring after some time. MTF is much more lighthearted.

In relation to negativity on this forum, it's not even that bad. I've seen many worse sports forums where if you even step out of line a little bit, you get trashed by everyone in the topic.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:19 AM   #41
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

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Originally Posted by Kowchi View Post
I'm also surprised at how some of the young adults and adults act. I mean most everyone hear is aged 20-40, I just feel maturity levels would increase with age. But some of the things said are just childish. I realize I'm 20; I may act silly and young sometimes, but I can still show respect and be mature.
try to have fun your own way with people like you, I don't think it's a good place for you.

You see, even fast_clay, for whatever I can understand from his posts as I'm not clever enough to understand them usually, now I think he implies that it's you who're just not mature enough to suffer the way other people "have fun". You will get some trashing like that for being the way you are, because having fun at a good trash is just supposed to be natural and a showing of maturity for many ones here.

But don't care : at 42 years old it's also not my way to have fun, and I know many people like you and me who think the same in real life. Here most of the people, and especially the most active ones in the most active parts of MTF (GM and chats threads), think differently : just let them be, and be your own way with people like you, if you go to other forums go to forums you like, and as for tennis there are plenty of tennis matches to watch (and even better to play), and here you can still lurk the informative places like the tournament entry-lists without being on line, I know plenty of people who are just attracted by MTF because of these informative places as Sophitia and Slasher kind of say, but you don't need to be on line to do that, better spend your time on more pleasant things if you can't appreciate MTF's fun.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:10 AM   #42
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

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Originally Posted by Kowchi View Post
I feel this term is really bringing the community down. I know I haven't been posting that long, but I have been lurking for a year and realize how nasty and negative that term is. Mug is someone who is bad at tennis, doesn't work hard, and is a bad person. The thing is though, all the so called Mug players, work their asses off almost every year, to play the sport they love. They have lives, families, friends who care about them and love them. Plus they obviously have some sort of talent, to be ranked in tennis.

I feel it is unfair to call any tennis player a mug and I also feel the term is bringing the community down. Every time someone calls a player a mug, an argument ensues, parties bash each other and get off topic, leading to hatred towards fellow members. This policy also goes for other negative nicknames. Nadull, Olderer etc. All cause arguments and negativity.

I feel the community needs to become more critical and respectful in their responses. Also people need to have some more respect for fellow members. I'm not going to point out any names, but you know who you are. Positive changes could happen to this forum, to make it a more positive, accepting environment.



Your thoughts?
It's a good way of thinking, sadly you need anyone on board for that and that's completely impossible. It's not just MTF, it's internet as a whole. People hide anonimously and feel courageous enough to insult and attack and hate because there is no consequence. And this is a vicious cycle. Once one attacks, the other needs to defend and so start the neverendless arguments.

However I agree with everything you said. I have been to other forums and blogs and it's pretty much the same but maybe not as exaggerated as MTF.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:13 AM   #43
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

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Originally Posted by Kowchi View Post
Oh trust me I have been around internet forums before. This is just the worst of the worst, not kidding. Been around American football forums that are nicer then this place .

I will back off though, if it is all just "poking fun" at each other and other players. At face value this place seems nasty, but hey maybe its not.
I don't have a problem calling other posters mugs, but it's different when the term is used for players who obviously are not mugs. I respect and appreciate the talent and hardwork of every tennis player that makes it. I have never used the term for a player. However most posters here are mugs.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:12 PM   #44
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

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Originally Posted by tennizen View Post
Tennis is entertainment - we are watching action at a distance, the players like you say are working hard and hardly care about what gets said about them on some forum- what we are doing here is mostly entertaining ourselves. It is serious business for the pros- not for us.

It is perfectly possible to ignore what you consider hate banter and no one will ever close your threads down if you want to indulge in serious discussion. Some people (like duong for example) do it relentlessly whether they find encouragement from the rest or not.

Trying to get a large,diverse group of people to conform to your idea of respect and positivity is a completely pointless task.

Also love how most of the people who responded in this thread exclude themselves as if they have no role whatsoever in how this forum shaped up.
I don't agree with you, it is not "perfectly possible" to ignore the pointless and relentless trolling/hating of many posters.

Very often, posts that started well are "hijacked" by such people. I've seen it several times. Of course, being a Ferrer fan, I visit mostly Ferrer-related topics and really, lately any Ferrer-related post ends up in stupid and "broken-record"-like conversations about "vultures" and "talentless mugs who beat more talented players" and so on.
Of course you can put people on your ignore list, that's what I did at first. But I don't like to ignore people's posts, and anyway, what happens is that other people don't, so the main focus moves from whatever the initial topic was to that childish bickering.

For instance, when someone like pusher-for-life rushes to create a new thread a fraction of a second after a Ferrer match finishes, just so he can bash him again and again with the same words... I don't think this should be tolerated. It's obvious trolling and it has no point.

And it's not only posts about Ferrer, I remember looking at threads about one of the big 4, it inevitably ends up in a battle of tards and haters. Any kind of interesting discussion gets drowned in nonsense and you can't even follow it anymore.

Of course, posts that are really technical will probably not be full of trolls, but I also enjoy simple discussions on a match and not only very specialised discussions which I can't always follow.

And to those who say "the people complaining are the ones doing it"... I don't feel I have been doing it. As I said, I do occasionally like to engage in debate. Yes I did defend Ferrer several times, but after a while, when haters and trolls can repeat the same arguments tirelessly no matter what you say, I see no point in engaging them anymore. And I refrain myself from doing so.
I also try not to post deliberately offensive posts about players other people love.


Quote:
Originally Posted by duong View Post
It's interesting how the initial question has derived from "negativity and violence" to "entertainment vs seriousness".

I ignored that one could find violence and negativity entertaining. In real life I rather thought that these things hurt people rather than entertain them

Actually I wondered about the opposite, that violence could be inherent to competitive tennis itself, I hadn't understood it was rather inherent to "entertainment".
That's the point. Yes, the Internet is a place where you are free from "real world" barriers, and it's a place when you can have fun and be silly. But there are a lot of ways to be funny and silly, without being a hater and turning every discussion into a trashing party.

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Oh trust me I have been around internet forums before. This is just the worst of the worst, not kidding. Been around American football forums that are nicer then this place .
I have also been around a lot of forums. Forums about movies, actors, sports, even politics. Registering on a forum is literally the first thing I did when I got my first Internet subscription (that must have been in 1999... wow! )

And really, I think it's absolutely untrue that all forums on the Internet are as negative as this one. Maybe because it's a bigger forum, I don't know.
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:36 PM   #45
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Default Re: A serious discussion on the term MUG and the negativity that surronds MTF atm. :(

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I don't agree with you, it is not "perfectly possible" to ignore the pointless and relentless trolling/hating of many posters.
I have been a poster on this site for over 5 years now and I have been able to do it quite well.

Quote:
Very often, posts that started well are "hijacked" by such people. I've seen it several times. Of course, being a Ferrer fan, I visit mostly Ferrer-related topics and really, lately any Ferrer-related post ends up in stupid and "broken-record"-like conversations about "vultures" and "talentless mugs who beat more talented players" and so on.
Of course you can put people on your ignore list, that's what I did at first. But I don't like to ignore people's posts, and anyway, what happens is that other people don't, so the main focus moves from whatever the initial topic was to that childish bickering.
I personally don't understand how much 'serious' discussion there can be on any tennis related topic after a point of time. Most such discussions seem repetitive and superfluous to me. That said, I have always been able to find the information I need, identify a few posters I trust (even if I disagree with what they say) and filter out what I consider useless or at least tolerate it with some detachment and amusement. The onus of finding out your corner lies on you( not you specifically but the generic you)- there's nothing to be gained by lecturing other people to act or behave in a manner that you find conducive or suitable or bemoaning the lack of certain standards. I find that many people who are 'trolls' are that way because they have a certain attitude of lightheartedness- not that they are automatically ignorant just because they don't indulge in repetitive or 'serious' discussions. I also find that most people cannot deal with dissent and differing opinions on a topic and respond to it by reducing the other person to a troll.

Quote:
And to those who say "the people complaining are the ones doing it"... I don't feel I have been doing it. As I said, I do occasionally like to engage in debate.
You are a relatively new poster so obviously you aren't one of those I was talking about.
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