One thing I dont understand about Djokovic's defence... - Page 3 - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

Reply

Old 10-13-2012, 01:21 PM   #31
country flag tyruk14
Registered User
 
tyruk14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,142
tyruk14 has a reputation beyond reputetyruk14 has a reputation beyond reputetyruk14 has a reputation beyond reputetyruk14 has a reputation beyond reputetyruk14 has a reputation beyond reputetyruk14 has a reputation beyond reputetyruk14 has a reputation beyond reputetyruk14 has a reputation beyond reputetyruk14 has a reputation beyond reputetyruk14 has a reputation beyond reputetyruk14 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: One thing I dont understand about Djokovic's defence...

His groundgame has impeccable depth on the stretch, which makes him very difficult to beat in certain situations, especially when he's on the scramble toward the backhand corner.
__________________
14
tyruk14 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 10-13-2012, 01:26 PM   #32
country flag Winner Seaker
Banned!
 
Winner Seaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 73
Winner Seaker has a reputation beyond reputeWinner Seaker has a reputation beyond reputeWinner Seaker has a reputation beyond reputeWinner Seaker has a reputation beyond reputeWinner Seaker has a reputation beyond reputeWinner Seaker has a reputation beyond reputeWinner Seaker has a reputation beyond reputeWinner Seaker has a reputation beyond reputeWinner Seaker has a reputation beyond reputeWinner Seaker has a reputation beyond reputeWinner Seaker has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: One thing I dont understand about Djokovic's defence...

when Djokovic is returning deep he is almost unbeatable . At least by all players except Nadal, Murray and Federer.
Winner Seaker is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 01:30 PM   #33
country flag tektonac
Registered User
 
tektonac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,763
tektonac has a reputation beyond reputetektonac has a reputation beyond reputetektonac has a reputation beyond reputetektonac has a reputation beyond reputetektonac has a reputation beyond reputetektonac has a reputation beyond reputetektonac has a reputation beyond reputetektonac has a reputation beyond reputetektonac has a reputation beyond reputetektonac has a reputation beyond reputetektonac has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: One thing I dont understand about Djokovic's defence...

it turned out to be many things for the OP ...
tektonac is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 01:35 PM   #34
country flag Orange Wombat
Banned!
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,401
Orange Wombat has a reputation beyond reputeOrange Wombat has a reputation beyond reputeOrange Wombat has a reputation beyond reputeOrange Wombat has a reputation beyond reputeOrange Wombat has a reputation beyond reputeOrange Wombat has a reputation beyond reputeOrange Wombat has a reputation beyond reputeOrange Wombat has a reputation beyond reputeOrange Wombat has a reputation beyond reputeOrange Wombat has a reputation beyond reputeOrange Wombat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: One thing I dont understand about Djokovic's defence...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satasonic View Post
Nah, Djokovic has an average forehand compared to most of the top guys and it is very, very attackable and weak. His backhand is his money shot, no doubt about it. Murray won almost all of the forehand to forehand rallies in the match (there was a statistic in the USOpen final where I think Murray won about 85% of those), and Murray has a weak forehand.


Also, Murray doesnt play any "rhythm breaking" game. He is waiting for errors and thats it.
Wrong. Djokovic's forehand is a whip of power. He makes more errors off of it though.
Orange Wombat is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2012, 06:42 AM   #35
country flag Crvena Zvezda
Registered User
 
Crvena Zvezda's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nîmes, France
Age: 45
Posts: 3,663
Crvena Zvezda has a reputation beyond reputeCrvena Zvezda has a reputation beyond reputeCrvena Zvezda has a reputation beyond reputeCrvena Zvezda has a reputation beyond reputeCrvena Zvezda has a reputation beyond reputeCrvena Zvezda has a reputation beyond reputeCrvena Zvezda has a reputation beyond reputeCrvena Zvezda has a reputation beyond reputeCrvena Zvezda has a reputation beyond reputeCrvena Zvezda has a reputation beyond reputeCrvena Zvezda has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: One thing I dont understand about Djokovic's defence...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satasonic View Post
Nah, Djokovic has an average forehand compared to most of the top guys and it is very, very attackable and weak. His backhand is his money shot, no doubt about it. Murray won almost all of the forehand to forehand rallies in the match (there was a statistic in the USOpen final where I think Murray won about 85% of those), and Murray has a weak forehand.


Also, Murray doesnt play any "rhythm breaking" game. He is waiting for errors and thats it.
There is a big thing that can can't allow good statistics about US Open final : WIND !!

Andy is dealing with WIND better than anybody else on that tourney and he already had a tough windy match in SF. Nole just get frustrated when it is windy even if he has been mastering his feelings far better since 2010.
Let's make your forehand statistics on a quiet day !
__________________
N°1E

Please buy Nadal some hair gel so that he can stop buttpicking to comb his hair.
Goat only matters to make cheese.
Crvena Zvezda is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2012, 06:56 AM   #36
country flag Jverweij
Registered User
 
Jverweij's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Age: 32
Posts: 4,114
Jverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: One thing I dont understand about Djokovic's defence...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crvena Zvezda View Post
I will answer but I'm not sure you aim to discuss or simply destroy Nole and be aggressive against Srbija and Srbske.
Anyway that won't affect me so much... And I have also very bad feelings about USA and Israel role in the world but it is out of topic here I guess.

1) Nole returns faster (I mean sooner in fact not talking about speed) and play faster than others because most of the time he takes balls sooner (when fit he read the ball better) so he let less time for his opponent to organise, put themselves in the right position and hit well.)
That's why Federer is slicing so much when playing Nole to get the pace slower and organise.
Last year Nadal stopped is moonball strategy because Nole would took the ball sooner before the higher of the bounce and destroy him.
Most of players wait the higher of the bounce and against Rafa it gets up their shoulder so they can't attack Rafa moonballs.

2) Nole as an art for incredible crosscourt like formerly Miroslav Mecir (father of course) and a lot of players fear that.

3) Nole is now slim and fit and I guess a lot of players now they will not be able to rally as long as him and recover.
Rafa last year was over the time limit between rallies in order to recover and soon with the new rule pending (first serve void with an overtime in-between) it will be even more difficult to play a fit Nole.

That my thougts we can discuss them but only if it is a discussion and not a argument.
jeez...paranoid much?

on topic. The OP is totally off base here. Nole can overpower players as well as grind them down. And his FH has improved alot, I'd say it's one of the best on tour now. Certainly one of the most consistent shots.

EDIT: OP, sorry for being the grammar police here, but if you are able to write defensive...how on earth do you write defense with a c, just 2 words after that?
Jverweij is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2012, 07:03 AM   #37
country flag Alex999
Registered User
 
Alex999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kanata
Posts: 9,425
Alex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: One thing I dont understand about Djokovic's defence...

Quote:
Originally Posted by paseo View Post
Man, you need a lot of explanation. And I'm too lazy to type it.

But, I gotta correct the worst error of your statement, Fed can NOT out grind Djokovic. I don't know about prime Fed, but this 31 year old Fed would injure himself if he tries to do that.
I just noticed this post and there is too much to explain to the OP. As you said, Fed doesn't 'out grind' Novak, not even in his best days. it simply doesn't work that way. Fed is Fed and he wins when he is aggressive and UE free (yeah, easier said than done) against players like Nole or Murray but it's not really working lately. Unlike AM, Nole can be very aggressive but he is choosing not too and, even as his fan, I don't really like it. I think it really cost him the USO title this year (forget about the wind thing, it doesn't matter). young aggressive Novak is gone and I miss him, but whatever.
Alex999 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 12:34 AM   #38
country flag stewietennis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,041
stewietennis has a reputation beyond reputestewietennis has a reputation beyond reputestewietennis has a reputation beyond reputestewietennis has a reputation beyond reputestewietennis has a reputation beyond reputestewietennis has a reputation beyond reputestewietennis has a reputation beyond reputestewietennis has a reputation beyond reputestewietennis has a reputation beyond reputestewietennis has a reputation beyond reputestewietennis has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: One thing I dont understand about Djokovic's defence...

Djokovic's forehand only looks weak when you hold it in comparison with the rest of his weapons. But, given Djokovic's other strong strong qualities, he only needs an above average forehand. Given a great forehand for offense, put-aways, smashes and passing shots, Djokovic would be virtually unbeatable.
stewietennis is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 02:08 AM   #39
country flag Tag
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Age: 25
Posts: 3,262
Tag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: One thing I dont understand about Djokovic's defence...

djokovic hates players who either attack, and attack properly, or mix things up

i.e federer, tsonga, murray, roddick when he played aggressive

he's a product of his era and these courts. he would get demolished in the 90s, for example

the problem is that this eras courts are slow, favouring defence and retrieving, and secondly, most players these days cannot volley or shit themselves at the thought of approaching the net
Tag is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 02:09 AM   #40
country flag leng jai
Registered User
 
leng jai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Oxford (at heart)
Age: 27
Posts: 20,457
leng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: One thing I dont understand about Djokovic's defence...

One thing I don't understand is why his opponents don't simply bypass his defense with 150mph on the line groundstrokes
__________________
WARNING: This signature may contain extreme traces of bullying and glory hunting

TOMMY HASS
0 slams () and 0 finals
0 consecutive weeks at world no. 1
0 consecutive Laureus World Sports Awards
0 times qualified for YEC
3-13 H2H against Rogi Featherer
0-5 H2H against Rafito Nadal
Career low ranking: 1,241 (26.06.1995)
0 fake mullets flaunted in Roland Garros finals.
1 first name in common with Tommy Robredo
leng jai is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 02:55 AM   #41
country flag Lee
Gugaholic
 
Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Under the blue sky
Posts: 83,403
Lee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond reputeLee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: One thing I dont understand about Djokovic's defence...

Quote:
Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
One thing I don't understand is why his opponents don't simply bypass his defense with 150mph on the line groundstrokes
Yup! Every top 100 players can do that!!!!
Lee is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 02:58 AM   #42
country flag Tag
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Age: 25
Posts: 3,262
Tag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond reputeTag has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: One thing I dont understand about Djokovic's defence...

Quote:
Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
One thing I don't understand is why his opponents don't simply bypass his defense with 150mph on the line groundstrokes
that's the next advance in racket technology

it killed off serve and volley

now it aims to kill off slow courts
Tag is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 05:05 AM   #43
country flag Satasonic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,550
Satasonic has a reputation beyond reputeSatasonic has a reputation beyond reputeSatasonic has a reputation beyond reputeSatasonic has a reputation beyond reputeSatasonic has a reputation beyond reputeSatasonic has a reputation beyond reputeSatasonic has a reputation beyond reputeSatasonic has a reputation beyond reputeSatasonic has a reputation beyond reputeSatasonic has a reputation beyond reputeSatasonic has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: One thing I dont understand about Djokovic's defence...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jverweij View Post
jeez...paranoid much?

on topic. The OP is totally off base here. Nole can overpower players as well as grind them down. And his FH has improved alot, I'd say it's one of the best on tour now. Certainly one of the most consistent shots.

EDIT: OP, sorry for being the grammar police here, but if you are able to write defensive...how on earth do you write defense with a c, just 2 words after that?
I thought about it as well, but I think defensive and defence are 2 completely different words. It feels kind of wrong to write defense or defencive, so I think thats why I wrote it like that



If you look at the Djokovic-Murray match in Shanghai, you can clearly understand why Murray lost. Of course, Djokovic saving the match points was epic, but Murray didnt serve anywhere good enough or grind anywhere near enough to have a chance of defeating this Nole.


Also, out of the 5 match points, he kind of choked 2 or 3. Djokovic saved a couple of them with winners, but not all of them.
__________________
FEDERER
KARLOVIC

RAONIC

AND ALL OTHER SERVEBOTS


SERVEBOTS ARE TENNIS
Satasonic is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 05:17 AM   #44
country flag BackhandDTL
Registered User
 
BackhandDTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 23
Posts: 3,291
BackhandDTL has a reputation beyond reputeBackhandDTL has a reputation beyond reputeBackhandDTL has a reputation beyond reputeBackhandDTL has a reputation beyond reputeBackhandDTL has a reputation beyond reputeBackhandDTL has a reputation beyond reputeBackhandDTL has a reputation beyond reputeBackhandDTL has a reputation beyond reputeBackhandDTL has a reputation beyond reputeBackhandDTL has a reputation beyond reputeBackhandDTL has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: One thing I dont understand about Djokovic's defence...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satasonic View Post
We all know that Djokovic has got excellent defensive, and defence to offense skills. Djokovic's game revolves around returning every ball as long as he can, forcing his opponent to go closer and closer to the line, or to approach the net with terrible approach shots. If Djokovic manages to put his opponents in a defensive position, he often chooses to slap a winner in the court. Really effective.
I agree insofar that Djokovic's natural tendency is to grind points out, but I disagree with the notion that he's offensive only "if he manages to put his opponents in a defensive position". He takes initiative much more than you're giving him credit for, even if it's not always by way of an outright bullet. He moves the ball around the court with seemingly little effort, and that greatly facilitates his ability to displace his opponent and step into the court.


Quote:
Why do most of the opponents choose to attack Djokovic's almost inpenetrable defence? In my opinion (once again, Im not a professional tennis player, easier said than done) if you choose to grind Djokovic down and simply move him from side to side with no pace balls, Djokovic will eventually lose his temper and try to go for winners, which he doesnt do well.
You certainly shouldn't just try to redline it against him. But rather than junk balling him, I've always felt that the trick is to give him plenty of variety. Alternate pace, spins, and placement; take chances. He's a textbook baseliner, so the last thing you want is for him to get "used" to anything. One of the reasons I think he played Nadal so effectively last year is because Rafa generally gives you the same ball from the back court. To his credit, it's more than enough to grind down or muscle through most of his opponents, but Novak got a handle on it and Rafa didn't have the variety to upset him.

Quote:
Ive seen this many times in the past, and more recently Federer at Wimbledon.
"In the past" really refers to pre-'11 Nole. As someone capable of both extensive offense and defense, he used to have a real problem with balancing the two playing styles. This caused him to both get trigger happy and fall into defensive ruts at times, but he's become a lot more constructive and even-keeled in the past couple of years.

When it comes to Wimbledon, you have to keep in mind that Novak is simply not a great grass court player. More particularly, his movement on the surface just isn't comparable to the other top players. Federer got the ball behind him a lot in a way that probably wouldn't have worked on other surfaces, where Djokovic's movement is outstanding. Roger used experience and grass expertise to keep Djokovic from getting behind the ball, but that's no precept for playing him.
BackhandDTL is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 05:48 AM   #45
country flag Jverweij
Registered User
 
Jverweij's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Age: 32
Posts: 4,114
Jverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: One thing I dont understand about Djokovic's defence...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satasonic View Post
I thought about it as well, but I think defensive and defence are 2 completely different words. It feels kind of wrong to write defense or defencive, so I think thats why I wrote it like that
I've looked it up :P It seems like both defence and defense can be used. Still thinks it looks silly though


Quote:
Originally Posted by Satasonic View Post
If you look at the Djokovic-Murray match in Shanghai, you can clearly understand why Murray lost. Of course, Djokovic saving the match points was epic, but Murray didnt serve anywhere good enough or grind anywhere near enough to have a chance of defeating this Nole.


Also, out of the 5 match points, he kind of choked 2 or 3. Djokovic saved a couple of them with winners, but not all of them.
Murray should've won yesterday, but all credit to Djokovic. This victory was mostly because of Djokovic' mentality. Both Murray's and Djokovic' defensive games are extraordinarily good.
Jverweij is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios