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Old 10-14-2012, 09:43 AM   #31
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Default Re: Nobel committee shows MTF how to troll awarding the Peace Prize to the EU

Not all of the people who are rubbishing the EU are doing it because of the current economic situation, there are plenty of other reasons to rubbish it. As I said Jagland the guy who is the head of the committee is so pro EU in a country that doesn't want to join pushing his agenda.

Abraxas is right as well with the people that have been selected for the prize in the past. If they were actually serious about the award it should have gone to Ales Bialiatski or Svetlana Gannushkina. But politics got in the way.
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On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:48 AM   #32
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Default Re: Nobel committee shows MTF how to troll awarding the Peace Prize to the EU

There are plenty of reasons to applaud it too, though, but many who loath the EU actually seem to enjoy the current economic crisis.

It IS a succesful peace project. I wouldn't have given the prize in current times because it seems to be rubbing salt in the Greek,...wounds, but it has brought peace at the heart of Europe.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:48 AM   #33
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Default Re: Nobel committee shows MTF how to troll awarding the Peace Prize to the EU

Yes, they do so well in the Balkans or does that not count as part of Europe.
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On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:55 AM   #34
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Default Re: Nobel committee shows MTF how to troll awarding the Peace Prize to the EU

That area has known problems long before the EU was founded and long before those countries there started joining the EU.
In fact, I figure that the EU has done its part in trying to bring stability to the region. Awarding the peace prize does not imply that the place is perfection.

We have problems but you can not deny that there are some positive sides to the EU.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:00 AM   #35
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Default Re: Nobel committee shows MTF how to troll awarding the Peace Prize to the EU

The award was a joke when there are legit people who are fighting against a lack of democracy in Russia and Belarus.

However since Jagland also is President of the Council of Europe, so even though Gannushkina is much more deserving than an organisation which has a massive democratic deficit. Since Russia is a member of that Council Jagland showed a lack of balls by going the easy option of furthering his own political agenda and not offending the big Bear.
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On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:04 AM   #36
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Default Re: Nobel committee shows MTF how to troll awarding the Peace Prize to the EU

You're about as objective about the EU as Nigel Farage, though.

Again, if you look at Europe before the EU, you look at the initial ideas behind the project and how it has brought stability in an area that was constantly at war, you can not ignore the massive impact the EU has had. Given how much turmoil Europe has known throughout history, you can not expect the Europeans to start joining hands and sing Kumbaya all of a sudden but as a peace project, it has proven its value.

Personally, I think that the EU has grown too quickly in recent times which explains part of the current situation. They wanted to run before they could walk.

Having said that, the timing of it is wrong.

Last edited by Castafiore : 10-14-2012 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:18 AM   #37
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Default Re: Nobel committee shows MTF how to troll awarding the Peace Prize to the EU

I'm actually very objective about it. Lets see check everything I have said. Jagland has a conflict of interest with the roles mentioned earlier, he is pro-EU in a country that doesn't want to join and awarding this award which has lacked credibility for years to sneak the issue is in while not offending the Russians.

Again, it's meant to be over the year and no way the EU deserves no matter how much spin you put on it. Next year they should award it to OPEC.
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On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 10-14-2012, 12:14 PM   #38
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Default Re: Nobel committee shows MTF how to troll awarding the Peace Prize to the EU

Yes, many of the countries in Europe have an economic crisis, but it's not like WWII. But why now?
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Old 10-14-2012, 01:29 PM   #39
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Default Re: Nobel committee shows MTF how to troll awarding the Peace Prize to the EU

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Originally Posted by Castafiore View Post
The timing of it is not good due to the economic crisis dividing the EU but you have to look beyond the current times. The EU was founded on the ruins left by two world wars that tore apart the European continent. The basic idea was to unite rivaling countries that had been fighting for centuries, dragging other European regions down with them (Germany and France for instance have been battling it out for centuries, bitter rivals but currently, arm in arm in current times).

The basic idea is that if you create one region, with more and more common economic, political, judicial,... interests,...the fighting would stop and the conflicts would be sorted in more peaceful ways. In that sense, the EU really is a peace project even though it's currently going through a very rough time. If you would say two centuries back that Germany and France would once be quite united within Europe, they would have figured that you'd lost the plot.

There is a reason why my country, Belgium, was one of the founding nations for the European Union. Belgium has been a battle ground too often each time Germany, France, the UK,... fought. In fact, Belgium was founded as some sort of buffer zone between France, Germany and the UK. For similar reasons, the NATO headquarters are in Brussels.

People just throwing the entire concept of the EU in the bin due to the current economic situation do not know enough of the history and the reason behind the concept of the European Union.
This is all true. But the timing is awful, just terrible really! Wjat were they thinking? And like AJ said, it's not just about the economic scenery, there is more to it than that...
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Old 10-14-2012, 02:06 PM   #40
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Default Re: Nobel committee shows MTF how to troll awarding the Peace Prize to the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ
I'm actually very objective about it.
I'm sure Nigel Farage also figures he's being quite objective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arm
it's not just about the economic scenery, there is more to it than that
What's it about for you then?

The Europhobes were obviously already criticising the EU long before the economic crisis exploded in October 2008, but if you read the worldwide analyses on the Nobel Peace Prize for the EU, the focus very much is on the economic problems facing the EU which to me is short-sighted.

The EU is not perfection. Mistakes were made and will be made in the future. The EU is facing a lot of problems. Awarding this prize does not mean that the EU is a paradise of perfection. However, criticising the EU without acknowledging the great achievements of the EU is unfair. Esp. if it comes from groups who are unwilling to recognize own faults and mistakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange Wombat View Post
Yes, many of the countries in Europe have an economic crisis, but it's not like WWII. But why now?
The crisis is worldwide, though. The EU is tackling it but the problems facing the EU are problems that are festering in other parts of the world as well.

Why now?
I'm guessing that amidst the crisis and the focus being on the EU (while shoving their own problems under the carpet, but perhaps I'm getting too cynical about it), the EU is criticised left, right and centre with many people being blind to the good the EU has brought. Amidst the attacks on the EU, it's perhaps good to remind people of what's good about the European Union.

I figure it's also a reminder to the power that be within the EU to one of the strong points of the European Union: to bring stability. It's high time for the EU to bring stability in the current crisis climate.

Last edited by Castafiore : 10-14-2012 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 10-14-2012, 03:20 PM   #41
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Default Re: Nobel committee shows MTF how to troll awarding the Peace Prize to the EU

The EU is a great idea and i can only hope in the future we will have M.E like u have in the EU and all the countries in the area will have One currency, open border and of course no wars..it sounds like a joke esp if u look at this area now but The situation in Europe after the World War II was worse.

i think the EU should get the award but it should have been a few years ago or in a few years, the eco' crisis in Europe didnt skip a country in the world, i know israel and a lot of countries are not part of europe but the eco crisis effect all of us, each country has Trade and economic Relations with the EU so as a banker & Intern capital market i see it as "if we wont stand for each other, we will be hang near each other" sadly i dont think the actions the leaders do help much, they are stoping the Leak they dont fix the problem in the pipeline.
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Old 10-14-2012, 03:33 PM   #42
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Default Re: Nobel committee shows MTF how to troll awarding the Peace Prize to the EU

The European construction has nothing to do with peace in Europe.

The European Community started in 1957 (Rome Treaty), which means 12 years after the end of WWII. During these 12 years two crises could've led to a war: the Berlin Blockade 1948/49 and the Hungarian Crisis of 1956. The EU wasn't there to stop it.

The reason for this long peace period in Europe is defined by the M.A.D. theory (Mutually Assured Destruction), which implies that the nuclear weapon that the USA and the USSR had at that time was used as a deterrent, and even more so since China, the UK and France also have it.

However the EU is more and more often leading to war.

Article 42 of the Treaty on the European Union says:
2. The common security and defence policy shall include the progressive framing of a common
Union defence policy. This will lead to a common defence, when the European Council, acting
unanimously, so decides. It shall in that case recommend to the Member States the adoption of such a
decision in accordance with their respective constitutional requirements.
The policy of the Union in accordance with this Section shall not prejudice the specific character of the
security and defence policy of certain Member States and shall respect the obligations of certain
Member States, which see their common defence realised in the North Atlantic Treaty
Organisation (NATO), under the North Atlantic Treaty and be compatible with the common security
and defence policy established within that framework.



Commitments and cooperation in this area shall be consistent with commitments under the
North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, which, for those States which are members of it, remains the
foundation of their collective defence and the forum for its implementation.


In other words, the EU is subordinated to NATO and therefore has its responsibility in the killings of numerous civilians in Afghanistan, in the wars in Kosovo and Lybia, among others,...

Also remember that in 2003, we were only 2 countries in the EU to oppose to the war in Irak (France and Belgium). Which means that if there was such a thing as a Common Security and Defence Policy at that time, some fellow countrymen of mine would've been sent to the Iraki mudbath.
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:53 PM   #43
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Default Re: Nobel committee shows MTF how to troll awarding the Peace Prize to the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Castafiore View Post
I'm sure Nigel Farage also figures he's being quite objective.


What's it about for you then?

The Europhobes were obviously already criticising the EU long before the economic crisis exploded in October 2008, but if you read the worldwide analyses on the Nobel Peace Prize for the EU, the focus very much is on the economic problems facing the EU which to me is short-sighted.

The EU is not perfection. Mistakes were made and will be made in the future. The EU is facing a lot of problems. Awarding this prize does not mean that the EU is a paradise of perfection. However, criticising the EU without acknowledging the great achievements of the EU is unfair. Esp. if it comes from groups who are unwilling to recognize own faults and mistakes.
I am sorry I wasn't clear enough. I don't hate the EU, I love it! I am 22 years old, trust me the EU has had a big impact on my generation and it changed its course. I am aware of that. So, trust me when I tell you that I do acknowledge its achievements and victories, which are undeniable.

While I do agree with AJ that there is more to the controversy than the economical scenario, my only problem qith this prize is its timing. Which couldn't be more wrong.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:07 PM   #44
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Default Re: Nobel committee shows MTF how to troll awarding the Peace Prize to the EU

too much
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:14 AM   #45
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Default Re: Nobel committee shows MTF how to troll awarding the Peace Prize to the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Castafiore View Post
I'm sure Nigel Farage also figures he's being quite objective.
Well everything I said about Jagland, his conflict of interests within the organisations he is in, his pro EU agenda are fact.

There is no logical reason to give them the award in times like this. Hence it's trolling at best.
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On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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