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Old 10-06-2012, 05:22 PM   #61
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Default Re: Murray`s negative attitude on court

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Originally Posted by Sapeod View Post
Andy doesn't lose because of his attitude. He loses because his opponent is either better, he gifts the match away or plays badly.
well, beside what he "shows" which has been mostly discussed, there's the "negative" trend he gets in, which caught him many times in the past, for instance against Wawrinka in the US Open 2010, but not only, even his bad play in slam finals or his problem with his forehand in Wimbledon semi 2011 as well (although actually he tends to have it less against Nadal, probably because he respects him more, quite like MCEnroe against Borg), can be related to that
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:23 PM   #62
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Default Re: Murray`s negative attitude on court

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Originally Posted by safin-rules-no.1 View Post
I hated Safin for years Then he pulled his pants down and I was a fan for life Not that I'm suggesting Murray do the same....
Fact is, if you found Murray hot you'd defend him just as vehemently as you now attack him
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:24 PM   #63
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Default Re: Murray`s negative attitude on court

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Originally Posted by safin-rules-no.1 View Post
You like constant swearing, faking injuries when he loses points and looking up at his camp with a disgusted look when his opponent hits a winner past him? Says a lot about you HE NEEDS TO BE BANNED FROM THE TOUR
Says a Safin fan with John McAngry on his avatar
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:24 PM   #64
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Default Re: Murray`s negative attitude on court

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Originally Posted by safin-rules-no.1 View Post
But it's off-putting to opponents and it's more than just occasionally. His attitude on court stinks
So Murray briefly clutching his back after a point is disrupting his opponents? If so that says more about his opponents mentality than him.

Also how do you know he isn't genuinly in pain? Most players probably have one or two niggles in matches.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:24 PM   #65
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Default Re: Murray`s negative attitude on court

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Originally Posted by scoobs View Post
I don't believe he is disdainful of his opponents, but frustrated with his own failure to execute his shots.
well I understand that, but his opponents don't always feel the same : I know the French Davis cup staff has been very upset by his attitude against Gasquet in Roland-Garros (after the match against Nieminen before where actually Nieminen said that he had really believed he was going to retire)
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:26 PM   #66
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Default Re: Murray`s negative attitude on court

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And I`m OK with this. It really reminds Mcenroe a bit who considered everyone to be mug with the exception for Borg. He wrote himself that in matches against Borg he never started to angry - too many respect for this guy.
yes : Murray generally has another attitude against top-players, and especially against Nadal, whom he respects most.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:27 PM   #67
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Default Re: Murray`s negative attitude on court

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well I understand that, but his opponents don't always feel the same : I know the French Davis cup staff has been very upset by his attitude against Gasquet in Roland-Garros (after the match against Nieminen before where actually Nieminen said that he had really believed he was going to retire)
I would contend they're more upset that Gasquet folded like a cheap tent in that match once Murray got his back loosened up.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:27 PM   #68
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Default Re: Murray`s negative attitude on court

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Originally Posted by safin-rules-no.1 View Post
True. But i don't, so the attack continues until I either go blind or Murray get non-ugly.



Which is why nobody really cares what you think - your groin has rather basic thoughts.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:33 PM   #69
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Default Re: Murray`s negative attitude on court

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Originally Posted by scoobs View Post
I think if people are seriously suggesting that Andy was stroppy at times in his match because he doesn't respect Raonic or his game and expects to win easily, they are high or something.

I think just the opposite, he got wound up because he knows how tough Raonic would be with that serve and knew he couldn't afford loose play.
I don't think he thought he would win easily, but in some smiles, you had the impression he thought "here I will get you, son"

I think it's more complicated than our kind of caricatural comments, it's not conscious, it's how he feels when he plays.

Ayway, much more important is the negativity, which is something else : I don't think he lost the Raonic-macth because of his attitude today, but he lost prvious ones in the past because of his negativity like against Wawrinka in the US Open 2010, yes.

And anyway, I agree all of those are mostly about being "perfectionist" like McEnroe or the early Federer.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:33 PM   #70
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Default Re: Murray`s negative attitude on court

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Well played.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:35 PM   #71
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Default Re: Murray`s negative attitude on court

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Which is why nobody really cares what you think - your groin has rather basic thoughts.
Ouch.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:36 PM   #72
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Post Re: Murray`s negative attitude on court

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Originally Posted by safin-rules-no.1 View Post
You clearly have never watched a Murray match. He's disgusting.
I very clearly have. Murray clutches his legs, yes, but that's not faking. Faking is taking a timeout when you don't need one or faking injury after a loss. Murray does neither. Not to mention he clutches his body when he's winning too. I guess he faked injury while winning, right?
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well, beside what he "shows" which has been mostly discussed, there's the "negative" trend he gets in, which caught him many times in the past, for instance against Wawrinka in the US Open 2010, but not only, even his bad play in slam finals or his problem with his forehand in Wimbledon semi 2011 as well (although actually he tends to have it less against Nadal, probably because he respects him more, quite like MCEnroe against Borg), can be related to that
I don't think it's Murray's attitude that allows him to be defeated. He just plays worse on the day, is injured (very seldom), gifts the match or his opponent is just too good (Roger in both of his first slam finals).
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:37 PM   #73
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Default Re: Murray`s negative attitude on court

Murray can have whatever attitude on court that he wants now. He has proved the haters like Topspinny wrong and that is all that matters.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:38 PM   #74
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Default Re: Murray`s negative attitude on court

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I don't think he thought he would win easily, but in some smiles, you had the impression he thought "here I will get you, son"

I think it's more complicated than our kind of caricatural comments, it's not conscious, it's how he feels when he plays.

Anyway, much more important is the negativity, which is something else : I don't think he lost the Raonic-macth because of his attitude today, but he lost prvious ones in the past because of his negativity like against Wawrinka in the US Open 2010, yes.
Some of his smiles said "here I will get you, son"? Really? I mean, I know reading peoples' facial expressions and body language can tell you stuff but it's not foolproof and people can put their own interpretations on such things based on how they already feel about a person - if you don't like someone, a smirk is more likely to be interpreted in a negative light than from someone you do like.

Having said all that, I dare say at times unflattering thoughts cross his mind in the heat of battle - they're all ultra-competitive, Murray probably more than most, and I challenge anyone who has been in some sort of competitive situation that wasn't going well to say they never had a flash of snarky thoughts about the opposition in those moments. But I would suggest that it comes out of the desire to win, not out of disrespect for the opposition.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:43 PM   #75
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Default Re: Murray`s negative attitude on court

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I would contend they're more upset that Gasquet folded like a cheap tent in that match once Murray got his back loosened up.
here's what Nieminen said on his blog about his match against Murray, it's very nice and responsible as Jarkko always is but you can't help haveing the impression that his "certainty" that Muray would retire made him let the match go away :

Quote:
Yesterday I was disappointed with the way I played my match, today I'm just happy that I'm alive and healthy... I almost got hit by a motorcycle in the morning. It came so fast behind the corner when I was crossing the street, luckily I reacted to the sound of it and could jump back just before it hit me. I didn't get hurt. It was a good reminder that it's good to live in the present moment and enjoy the time here as much as possible, you never know when it ends. I'm still amazed with what happened, very happy to be in one piece. Luckily I was faster now in the morning than yesterday on the court.

I have been able to do the right things tactically, mentally and physically pretty well for a long time now. The quality can variate but doing the right things is something that you can control, the result is just an outcome of the work you put in to it. I think I have written this many times in the past but it's a kind of a motto for me in playing. Yesterday I couldn't do the right things and the quality of my game was bad almost from the beginning to the end.

First two games I played better, after that Murray got big problems with his back or at least he was showing them very clearly. He couldn't basically play anymore... for a while. Sometimes even walking seemed to be too difficult. He didn't run for any balls for the next one and a half sets. I tried to keep playing the same but it was hard because there was no normal playing anymore. It was enough just to hit the ball once to the corner, most of the time just over the net, and the point was over. I didn't have to do anything for over a set. Even though I never expect someone to retire, this time I was sure that Murray would give up. I have had many opponents suffering on the court, many retirements and I have never seen someone struggling as much as Murray. Never so much drama. He just could not serve, play tennis what so ever. When you see a player in this kind of shape, especially a top-player, the natural thought is that for him it doesn't make any sense to keep going. Anyway Murray still did.

He got some treatment and in the middle of the second set he started to move better and he was able to serve again. I then decided to hit with a better pace again because but my strokes just went all over the place. I hadn't done game wise anything for 30min, the was no game, and then when Murray started to play more again, I couldn't do the things that I wanted to do. I didn't handle that change well. Everything felt bad, I didn't have any basics in good shape.

When Murray had this miracle healing, he still didn't do anything with the ball, he was just running everything back. I was watching his first round match and he played the same, very passive, running everything back, not missing any. That's why I felt confident going in to this match, I thought if Murray still plays the same way like in the first match, I have good chances, it would not be enough and at the same time my game was in such a good shape. That's why it's even more frustrating to finish the tournament with a poor match, because I had only good days in the last 2 weeks, extremely good.

The whole package let me down yesterday, the serve, returns, moving, thinking on the court, ground strokes etc. were really bad. Just the way the ball felt in the strings, felt like I was hitting stones. I tried some looser stringing tensions during the match to feel the ball a bit more but that didn't help either. When I had my loosest tension and that felt tight as well, I even tried to step and jump on the strings to make them looser fast. That might look brutal, (even more because you are not often really smiling when you do that) but that can have an effect. You see sometimes players do that, it's just not a good way to do it because you don't have control over how much tension you loose and it also looks like you want to destroy the racket even though you don't. My rackets, my loved ones are all fine and well. This is for the guy who asked for my racket after the match (I had a couple in my hands when I left the court), I still need the same ones for the next tournaments. Every stringing felt tight because my body wasn't behind the stroke, I moved bad and so the stroke was not relaxed and the timing was off. It was ok in the beginning of the match but after doing nothing for a while and then trying to raise the pace again, it was very off.

Anyway, whatever I did, it didn't work. After doing nothing for a while, after taking wrong choices for a while, there was no coming back, whatever I tried. I tried to take a toilet break, calm down game wise, come back to the court with a good plan, but it was tough to follow any game plan because I kept missing the easy shots as well. My good basic game, the way I have been playing earlier, would have been enough to beat Murray yesterday. I knew before that if Murray plays passive (I still expected him to play more aggressive comparing the first round match), everything it's up to me, he won't hurt me with his ground strokes, I either beat him with my game or lose it. Unfortunately my quality of the game wasn't good enough at any stage, obviously after Murray was able to run and serve. Despite of Murray's physical problems, whatever it was/is, it doesn't take the fact away that I just played a poor match.
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