[Tag]

Originally Posted by TigerTim

Don't forget Raonic falling to is death stare in Miami along with Nadal

raonic crumbled under the implied torture which would follow the match if he dared to win

nadal should've called on toni to make it rain. lendl would have prevailed though. too intense

federer quaking in his boots at the thought of shanghai

[IOFH]

Originally Posted by Mark Lenders

What? Nole despicably played a mandatory Masters 1000 tournament?What an evil vulture, clearly doing his best to abuse the ranking system

Of course, he either should've withdrawn beforehand citing an injury or during the tournament. Instead he vultured through the tournament fielding much, much weaker field than Dubai and also weaker than Rotterdam. So, as I've concluded if you take Dubai off (with both "vulturing there" No2e has been getting more "vulture" points than Federer this year.

I never said it made sense, I just followed you line of thinking. I rarely look for reason in MTF posters and you're no exception.

[Litotes]

Originally Posted by Mark Lenders

What? Nole despicably played a mandatory Masters 1000 tournament?What an evil vulture, clearly doing his best to abuse the ranking system

ATP 500s are mandatory too, you know. Not individually but collectively. You "have to" play four.

[duarte_a]

Originally Posted by Litotes

ATP 500s are mandatory too, you know. Not individually but collectively. You "have to" play four.

Owned!!!

[Mark Lenders]

Originally Posted by IOFH

Of course, he either should've withdrawn beforehand citing an injury or during the tournament. Instead he vultured through the tournament fielding much, much weaker field than Dubai and also weaker than Rotterdam. So, as I've concluded if you take Dubai off (with both "vulturing there" No2e has been getting more "vulture" points than Federer this year.

I never said it made sense, I just followed you line of thinking. I rarely look for reason in MTF posters and you're no exception.

You're definitely not making sense, that's for sure. He can't be blamed if the other top players were tired/injured or lost early in a mandatory tournament. My line of thinking would not even consider vulturing as far as mandatory events are concerned, so it's definitely not my line of thinking.

Originally Posted by Litotes

ATP 500s are mandatory too, you know. Not individually but collectively. You "have to" play four.

You can choose which four to play though, and you can also choose not to play any. Of course you can also choose not to play any M1000 events or GS tournaments, but I'm pretty sure you know the difference

[Litotes]

Originally Posted by Mark Lenders

You can choose which four to play though, and you can also choose not to play any. Of course you can also choose not to play any M1000 events or GS tournaments, but I'm pretty sure you know the difference

I know the difference, yes. When we talk about "vulturing" points, an interesting fact is the points potential of each player. If Djokovic had won everything he played, he would now have 16250 points, to be 16750 after Beijing. The corresponding figure for Federer is 15500 points.

[Sham Kay]

List summing up the reasons Nole loses matches so far: Wind/weather in general, lack of fitness, shortness of breath, walkovers and too little tennis making him too rusty in finals, too much tennis making him too crusty in finals, courts too fast, courts too slow, grass, bronze being his favourite metal alloy and USTA

.. Still doesn't compete with Rafa's list.

[Matt01]

Originally Posted by Sham Kay

List summing up the reasons Nole loses matches so far: Wind/weather in general, lack of fitness, shortness of breath, walkovers and too little tennis making him too rusty in finals, too much tennis making him too crusty in finals, courts too fast, courts too slow, grass, bronze being his favourite metal alloy and USTA

.. Still doesn't compete with Rafa's list.

Interesting irony in this post when I'm reading your signature

[IOFH]

Originally Posted by Mark Lenders

You're definitely not making sense, that's for sure. He can't be blamed if the other top players were tired/injured or lost early in a mandatory tournament. My line of thinking would not even consider vulturing as far as mandatory events are concerned, so it's definitely not my line of thinking.

Like I said, I'm happy my line of thinking doesn't coincide with the line of thinking that winning 8-of-top-10 500 is vulturing whereas beating Tipsarevic and Gasquet to win a 100 after a hectic summer isn't.

Carry on.

[Mark Lenders]

Originally Posted by IOFH

Like I said, I'm happy my line of thinking doesn't coincide with the line of thinking that winning 8-of-top-10 500 is vulturing whereas beating Tipsarevic and Gasquet to win a 100 after a hectic summer isn't.

Carry on.

Neither is vulturing. Federer is obviously not a vulture, would be ridiculous to claim otherwise. The non mandatories he won were Rotterdam with Berdych and Delpo, and Dubai with eight of the top 10, both strong fields. Halle, where he reached the final, had Nadal and Berdych.

The point of my post wasn't to claim Federer was a vulture (only two players in that list are, Ferrer and Monaco), but to highlight how Djokovic has taken 'non vulturing' to its absolute extreme (almost), by basically neglecting non mandatory 250/500 altogether so far this year. Entering and winning those doesn't make Federer a vulture by any stretch of imagination as all tournaments had pretty strong fields, but it is what gives Federer even a prayer of ending the year #1. In mandatory tournaments (and Olympics), Nole has a 2k+ point lead.

[Sham Kay]

Originally Posted by Matt01

Interesting irony in this post when I'm reading your signature

I usually spot irony a mile away. I'm definitely biased in this case, so tell me what you noticed

[IOFH]

Originally Posted by Mark Lenders

Neither is vulturing. Federer is obviously not a vulture, would be ridiculous to claim otherwise. The non mandatories he won were Rotterdam with Berdych and Delpo, and Dubai with eight of the top 10, both strong fields. Halle, where he reached the final, had Nadal and Berdych.

The point of my post wasn't to claim Federer was a vulture (only two players in that list are, Ferrer and Monaco), but to highlight how Djokovic has taken 'non vulturing' to its absolute extreme (almost), by basically neglecting non mandatory 250/500 altogether so far this year. Entering and winning those doesn't make Federer a vulture by any stretch of imagination as all tournaments had pretty strong fields, but it is what gives Federer even a prayer of ending the year #1. In mandatory tournaments (and Olympics), Nole has a 2k+ point lead.

Contradictory, you are indirectly claiming Federer has vultured more points than No2e this year which I strongly disagreed and rebutted. Tournament being mandatory or not is irrelevant considering the top players can skip tournaments as they please. ¨

BTW, I consider complaining about vulturing being extremely clownish but if you want to go there we drop Rotterdam for Fed and Toronto for No2e and Federer is 500 points closer in the race.

[Sapeod]

This year sure hasn't been as terrible as 2011. He didn't get 40 opponents who played awful in a row and his so called "GOAT tennis" isn't around anymore.

[Mark Lenders]

Originally Posted by IOFH

Contradictory, you are indirectly claiming Federer has vultured more points than No2e this year which I strongly disagreed and rebutted. Tournament being mandatory or not is irrelevant considering the top players can skip tournaments as they please. ¨

BTW, I consider complaining about vulturing being extremely clownish but if you want to go there we drop Rotterdam for Fed and Toronto for No2e and Federer is 500 points closer in the race.

Hmm no, I'm not claiming he vultured those points. Would only have been the case if they had come from tournaments with weak fields, which wasn't the case. What I am claiming, and it is not particularly debatable, is that Federer entered and got a lot more points from 250/500 tournaments than Novak. In Slams, Masters and Olympics, Djokovic has collected 9730 points this year, Federer 7655. Djokovic has clearly been the best player in the world in the biggest events, only his reluctance to enter 250/500 events is making the race close; he only entered one so far this year and collected 180 points from it while his closest competitor Federer got 1240. Claiming that Djokovic is the very opposite of a vulture doesn't imply that Federer or any other player is; Federer's 500/250 has been normal, along the lines of what you expect from a top player, it's Djokovic's that has been exceptionally short.

Ah why do you insist with Toronto? Masters 1000 events cannot be vultured, especially considering the ranking system in place where you get a 0 pointer if you don't play one of the 4 Slams and 8 mandatory Masters. If the other top players were tired/lost early, more credit for Novak who played the exacty same schedule as them, took a bigger mental hit than them (doesn't get any worse than 4th place at Olympics) and yet managed to play great tennis that week.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by Mark Lenders

You're definitely not making sense, that's for sure. He can't be blamed if the other top players were tired/injured or lost early in a mandatory tournament. My line of thinking would not even consider vulturing as far as mandatory events are concerned, so it's definitely not my line of thinking.

On your line of thinking, being a vulture has nothing to do with the quality of the opposition you actually face, or your actual results or ranking. You can be a vulture, and gain nothing from it, so your ranking reflects your 'actual' level, or you can play tournaments with seemingly tough draws, get lucky with injuries and lack of form, and get an inflated ranking.

Djokovic wouldn't be a vulture even if all of the top 100 had pulled out of Toronto. Ferrer can't 'vulture' a slam even with W/Os in the semis and finals.

Being a vulture != having an 'inflated' ranking.