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Old 09-25-2012, 01:02 PM   #1
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Default Syrian children speak up

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Save the Children have issued an urgent appeal to the UN ahead of today's assembly to act to stop the escalating conflict in Syria. The appeal comes as they released a report called Untold Atrocities, a first-hand account of the crisis from children who have fled the country.

The report was based on interviews with children who have been a victim of war and torture at the hands of Syrian government forces. They were interviewed with the remaining members of their families at the Za'atari Refugee Camp in Jordan .

http://www.itv.com/news/2012-09-25/c...ld-atrocities/
Not sure what to make of this. I feel for the Syrians but at the same time I'm sure any type of (deeper) western involvement might be bad for them in the long run. Then again, I have no doubt that sooner than later the UN, the USA and other powerful nations will use these atrocities to justify further theft and exploitation in Syria. At the end of the day, the common people like the kids feautured in this article will continue to suffer.
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:30 PM   #2
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Default Re: Syrian children speak up

I know exactly what to make of this. But then, I don't mull over the question of ''tortured children versus my political opinions, which is more important?''

I assume you mean Syria and not Lybia in your post. My understanding is that it is not the UN and US that exploits Syria, but Iran.
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:33 PM   #3
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Default Re: Syrian children speak up

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
I know exactly what to make of this. But then, I don't mull over the question of ''tortured children versus my political opinions, which is more important?''
wow. way to miss the point.

Quote:
I assume you mean Syria and not Lybia in your post.
correction accepted
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: Syrian children speak up

You are not sure what to make of tortured children (your words). I have no hesitation.

What point did I miss?
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Syrian children speak up

Each to their own, I dont belive there is a "good vs evil" in almost any conflict. Just a struggle for power which got nothing to do with the west, we just need to get over ourselves and stay in our little continents and stop with the idea we should have the higher moral authority to decide what is good and what is evil.

Suffering of children is bad but it is unavoidable in any war, as the war cant be stopped with any other meassure besides further warfare from the west, it is unavoidable that children will suffer.

Europe and US is done as world powers anyway, we cant solve the problem of others with money borrowed from the chinese. Arabs should solve their own problems, just dont bring them over to Europe.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: Syrian children speak up

Sad to see Abraxas defending the 'rebels'.

Those people killed, tortured and slaughtered dozens of innocent common men, wrongly claiming that they were shabihas.

Factory workers, bus drivers, film directors, sportsmen, students, engineer, doctors, ...


Any sane person should despise them.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: Syrian children speak up

What a mess. Stay clear IMO.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: Syrian children speak up

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Originally Posted by sexybeast View Post

Suffering of children is bad but it is unavoidable in any war, as the war cant be stopped with any other meassure besides further warfare from the west, it is unavoidable that children will suffer.
Perhaps unavoidable as a part of the warfare, but I think that can be separated from a government carrying out deliberate torture.
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Old 09-25-2012, 06:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: Syrian children speak up

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The children told harrowing accounts of their experiences and that of their peers and recounted incidents of torture: of being used by the army as human shields on tanks, of having their fingernails pulled off and being burned with cigarette stubs.
Grown men actually do this in Syria? on children? way to go. no matter what side. And hanging children in their arms from the ceiling and beating them? who the hell does that?

Some quite brutal men in Syria. Must have had tough childhoods themselves to just stomach stuff like torturing children and now they seem intent on creating the next generation psychologically unstable individuals. Way to go Syria you are about halfway there already.

Hate to be cynical but the biggest problem here is the amount of refugees and broken human beings this creates. It's gonna cost a lot to fix a fuckup of this scale. Neither US nor Europe is built of money anymore. Doubt any Western country is even interested in long term peace-keeping commitment in the area just because of the huge cost.

If the people in the region cared about their fellow man maybe they could use the oil billions in a more constructive way. It's easy to try to shift away responsibilty to the West whenever there is a conflict.



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Originally Posted by sexybeast View Post
Europe and US is done as world powers anyway, we cant solve the problem of others with money borrowed from the chinese. Arabs should solve their own problems, just dont bring them over to Europe.
Not done but weakened. And if people thought US was good at exploiting just wait until China knocks on your door. A weak country full of problems will always be exploited. It's time to man up for Syria and understand that only themselves can fix their own country, and on that fixlist is probably to have an educated and well-trained army that doesn't torture children. If they need Western help for such fundamentals then we're not looking at a few years or even a decade to fix Syria. We are looking at a century or longer.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: Syrian children speak up

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
You are not sure what to make of tortured children (your words). I have no hesitation.
hmmm, no. those weren't my words.

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
What point did I miss?
That in an ideal world other countries should intervene in this situation but in the real world we live in i fear that any type of foreign intervention could be worse for the syrians in the long run.

it's a moral choice but at the end of the day neither one will be good.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:23 PM   #11
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Default Re: Syrian children speak up

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Sad to see Abraxas defending the 'rebels'.
when have i done that precisely?
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:30 PM   #12
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Default Re: Syrian children speak up

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Originally Posted by sexybeast View Post
Each to their own, I dont belive there is a "good vs evil" in almost any conflict. Just a struggle for power which got nothing to do with the west, we just need to get over ourselves and stay in our little continents and stop with the idea we should have the higher moral authority to decide what is good and what is evil.

Suffering of children is bad but it is unavoidable in any war, as the war cant be stopped with any other meassure besides further warfare from the west, it is unavoidable that children will suffer.

Europe and US is done as world powers anyway, we cant solve the problem of others with money borrowed from the chinese. Arabs should solve their own problems, just dont bring them over to Europe.
you get it.

overall, i think your position should be accepted in the long run. then again, it comes at the cost of neglecting thousands of innocent men, women and children who will bear the marks of torture, death of relatives and destruction of their environment. is this acceptable?

i remember the case of the rwandan genoicide, where the west stood by and did nothing to stop it. was it a good choice? at the face of the results i seems not. then again, would it have been for the best? especially considering that for starters it's well known that the genoicide was secretely encouraged by agents and politicians of the french government.
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Old 09-26-2012, 02:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: Syrian children speak up

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
hmmm, no. those weren't my words.

After reading an article on the torture of children, your actual words were ''Not sure what to make of this.''
Then you immediately fretted that for these tortured children ''things might be bad for them in the long run.'' Those are your words.

Then you get to the reason for the thread. How should the torture of Syrian children be seen through the prism of the actions of the evil West? No matter how appaling the subject, it seems to you that absolutely everything must first be looked at from the perspective of how the evil West controls everything that happens in the world.

So this leads you to the pathetic behaviour of considering whether the torturing of children now, might not be so bad in comparison to the misfortunes you have no doubt await them when the evil West comes to exploit them and steal their lives.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:00 PM   #14
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Default Re: Syrian children speak up

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when have i done that precisely?


The article you quoted in the OP ...
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:02 PM   #15
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Default Re: Syrian children speak up

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
After reading an article on the torture of children, your actual words were ''Not sure what to make of this.''
Then you immediately fretted that for these tortured children ''things might be bad for them in the long run.'' Those are your words.

Then you get to the reason for the thread. How should the torture of Syrian children be seen through the prism of the actions of the evil West? No matter how appaling the subject, it seems to you that absolutely everything must first be looked at from the perspective of how the evil West controls everything that happens in the world.

So this leads you to the pathetic behaviour of considering whether the torturing of children now, might not be so bad in comparison to the misfortunes you have no doubt await them when the evil West comes to exploit them and steal their lives.
you continue to misrepresent the message. i don't think you ever got it in the first place.

"Then you get to the reason for the thread. How should the torture of Syrian children be seen through the prism of the actions of the evil West?"

Not really. I look at things from the perspective of how they can be fixed. That's my initial approach to pretty much every problem. What else can be done, express messages of dissaproval and feel sorry? In any case, it doesn't make any difference. At the end of the day this is simply an internet forum.

Anyhow, from that initial approach I convey the view that there's no palpable solution in the short term. Things are complicated and will still be complicated no matter what. I add the case of a possible western intervention as a way to show a moral dilemma that won't solve anything either way.
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