Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro? - Page 2 - MensTennisForums.com

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View Poll Results: Who?

Berdych 26 76.47%
Del Potro 8 23.53%
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:26 AM   #16
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Default Re: Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro?

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
He has a better first serve definitely. Del Potro gets a higher % of first serves in and his second serve is far better/less attackable. I'll definitely take JMDP's more reliable serve over Berdych, who has a world class 1st serve but poor % and a weak second serve.

Anyway, the only reason this is a contest is Del Potro's constant injuries , he was definitely clearly the better player of the two.
He WAS. In 2009 and first half of 2011. Now they are the same - they belong in the 2nd tier of players and when on, they can beat anyone. But I'm dissapointed in Delpo. I expected him to be ranked no3 or 4. He current level is below Ferrers for most of the time (I know you don't agree) and he has nothing 'special' to offer (bar few matches a year). He still beats lower ranked/worse players, but rly is starting to fade as a contender... 2012 should have been his year of total comeback and getting the new career high ranking but he needed more than half of the year only to get to no8...
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:34 AM   #17
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Default Re: Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro?

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Their volleys and BH are on similar levels - Del Potro's are less prone to break down under pressure, but that's because he mentally stronger -, Del Potro's serve is more reliable.
Berdych is much better at the net, he's actually not afraid to come in and put volleys away, that's one of the primary reasons why he's so tough for Noserer - Del Potro is a baseline camper who won't approach the net even after he gains advantage from the back.

Also you're confusing mental strength and technical ability. When Berdshit shows up, he's a clown for sure. At his best his BH >>>> Del Potro.

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Yes, you are wrong that he can't win a Masters. He hasn't so far, but he has the ability to do it in the future.
Maybe something like Paris indoors or Shanghai

Quote:
You're wrong that he fluked his Slam. He had reached a Slam SF in the same year and then went on to reach the final of the WTF. Conclusion: he was one of the best players at the time.
Context is important as well. Nadal was injuried and Noserer choked. It was not as impressive of a run as it looks on paper.

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Yes, you are wrong that he's a basically a bitch to the Big 3. He has beaten each of them in big matches and has given big trouble to Nadal and Djokovic even in his return year.
It doesn't matter, his H2H vs the big 3 is embarrassing: 7-26, doesn't matter if he can trouble them or not. It's still a joke, my bich comment stands.


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But in neither of your previous assertions have you even come close to being as wrong as when you stated Ferrer is more consistent than Del Potro
David is more consistent, he's been a top 5 player for a long time and usually has less embarrassing losses.
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:39 AM   #18
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Default Re: Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro?

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Originally Posted by uxyzapenje View Post
He WAS. In 2009 and first half of 2011. Now they are the same - they belong in the 2nd tier of players and when on, they can beat anyone. But I'm dissapointed in Delpo. I expected him to be ranked no3 or 4. He current level is below Ferrers for most of the time (I know you don't agree) and he has nothing 'special' to offer (bar few matches a year). He still beats lower ranked/worse players, but rly is starting to fade as a contender... 2012 should have been his year of total comeback and getting the new career high ranking but he needed more than half of the year only to get to no8...
He still is. The difference is smaller than it should be, but Del Potro is still the better player of the two. He is far more likely to live up to his seeding and a bigger threat overall to the top players too. He'll also win most matches between them, but that's a matchup issue. I love both players, but there's no doubt in my mind that Del Potro is clearly the better of the two and, most crucially, the one with most potential to achieve in the future.

I agree Del Potro has offered nothing special this year bar at the Olympics. That year you describe will happen as soon as he can get fully fit/healthy. If he keeps getting injured every other week, he'll get to #5 eventually but never more than that. He needs to be in good condtion to challenge for Slams/break the top 4. Even while injured/in poor form he is too much for the overwhelming majority of the tour, but once he reaches the top 4 it's over.
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:50 AM   #19
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Default Re: Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro?

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Berdych is much better at the net, he's actually not afraid to come in and put volleys away, that's one of the primary reasons why he's so tough for Noserer - Del Potro is a baseline camper who won't approach the net even after he gains advantage from the back.

Also you're confusing mental strength and technical ability. When Berdshit shows up, he's a clown for sure. At his best his BH >>>> Del Potro.
Del Potro approaches the net less often, but when he does he usually has good numbers there. Berdych can volley excellently at times, but he's very prone to break down under pressure, see his volleying vs Nadal at the AO this year.

Berdych on his best days has a better BH than Del Potro - JMDP's backhand is mostly a safe/set up shot, he doesn't take too many risks with it but hardly any errors too. But as far as consistency is concerned, JMDP wins by a landslide. At his best, Berdych is as good or better than Del Potro for sure, but on average it's a clear edge for Delpo, which is why he's the far better player. Even while injured/playing horribly, JMDP would never lose in a big tournament to the likes of Darcis or Gulbis, it takes a top seed to take him out.

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Maybe something like Paris indoors or Shanghai
Definitely. He should also win one of the clay masters at some point, he plays his best tennis on clay. Point is it is extremely unlikely he will retire with 0 Masters.


Quote:
Context is important as well. Nadal was injuried and Noserer choked. It was not as impressive of a run as it looks on paper.
The draw was full of players who could have taken advantage of that, yet it was Del Potro who did. Nadal wasn't at his best, but was still too much for the rest of the field. Beating Nadal and Federer is impressive no matter the circumstances.

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It doesn't matter, his H2H vs the big 3 is embarrassing: 7-26, doesn't matter if he can trouble them or not. It's still a joke, my bich comment stands.
That only proves that the big 3 have been better players than him over the years, which is not very debatable, everyone knows it. If he was their bitch though, he'd not have taken out in important tournaments. He was the only man other than Nadal to beat Federer in a Slam final, gave Nadal one of his worst beating in GS and reduced Djokovic to tears after he failed to get an Olympic medal.

In tennis terms, a bitch would be someone who does not represent a threat in big matches, JMDP does not match that description at all.


Quote:
David is more consistent, he's been a top 5 player for a long time and usually has less embarrassing losses.
Are we talking about the same guy who has losses to Bellucci and Istomin this year, and even in his best players has Slam losses to the likes of Verdasco, Melzer, Ramirez Hidalgo and co.? Del Potro is far less likely to lose to low ranked players.
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:54 AM   #20
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Default Re: Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro?

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He still is. The difference is smaller than it should be, but Del Potro is still the better player of the two. He is far more likely to live up to his seeding and a bigger threat overall to the top players too. He'll also win most matches between them, but that's a matchup issue. I love both players, but there's no doubt in my mind that Del Potro is clearly the better of the two and, most crucially, the one with most potential to achieve in the future.

I agree Del Potro has offered nothing special this year bar at the Olympics. That year you describe will happen as soon as he can get fully fit/healthy. If he keeps getting injured every other week, he'll get to #5 eventually but never more than that. He needs to be in good condtion to challenge for Slams/break the top 4. Even while injured/in poor form he is too much for the overwhelming majority of the tour, but once he reaches the top 4 it's over.
The truth is that I don't care if he mannages to break the top 4 or not. He propably will. Federer and Ferrer are 30something y-olds and will go away from the very top in the next year(s) and he's no4... Even if he gets to no2 playing like this (when he's not injured), he'll be like Mandy - allways waiting for Djokovic/Nadal or some future dominant player to have a bad day to beat them. I want to see that beast in him, dominating with his FH, slaping players around, not this constistant 2 teir player. We don't want him to become the next generations Ferrer now, do we?
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:03 AM   #21
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Default Re: Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro?

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Originally Posted by uxyzapenje View Post
The truth is that I don't care if he mannages to break the top 4 or not. He propably will. Federer and Ferrer are 30something y-olds and will go away from the very top in the next year(s) and he's no4... Even if he gets to no2 playing like this (when he's not injured), he'll be like Mandy - allways waiting for Djokovic/Nadal or some future dominant player to have a bad day to beat them. I want to see that beast in him, dominating with his FH, slaping players around, not this constistant 2 teir player. We don't want him to become the next generations Ferrer now, do we?
He will never be the next generation's Ferrer lol. I might be wrong, but I think it was you who said in some thread that Delpo's FH was the best shot in men's tennis. I agree with that, and as long as can swing that FH he'll always be more threatening than players like Ferrer. That's actually why he is so effective vs low ranked players, as soon as he gets to hit even a single FH in a rally the rally is pretty much over. At worse, he'd be this generation's version of Safin - a guy who for any given reasons can't be a consistent player but can beat anyone and win any tournament when at his best.

I agree with the rest, especially the bolded part. He has the game and the mentality/desire to become that beast. Let's just hope his body lets him, it basically comes down to that.
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:14 AM   #22
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Default Re: Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro?

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He will never be the next generation's Ferrer lol. I might be wrong, but I think it was you who said in some thread that Delpo's FH was the best shot in men's tennis. I agree with that, and as long as can swing that FH he'll always be more threatening than players like Ferrer. That's actually why he is so effective vs low ranked players, as soon as he gets to hit even a single FH in a rally the rally is pretty much over. At worse, he'd be this generation's version of Safin - a guy who for any given reasons can't be a consistent player but can beat anyone and win any tournament when at his best.

I agree with the rest, especially the bolded part. He has the game and the mentality/desire to become that beast. Let's just hope his body lets him, it basically comes down to that.
Yes, I said it. But i ment his 2009 FH, not the current version of it. It's still one of the best and his money shot, but not that good that players can't get it back. That's why he soses against Novak, Murray, Ferrer... They just get his FH back to him (to his BH) and his massive stoke from the previous shot is neutralised. Against the guys like Berdych or Tsonga, he can just outpower them and beat them, no problem... And by the way, 'today' i would say Nadal's topspin FH is the best shot in the game (nout counting Isner's 1st serve)
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:25 AM   #23
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Default Re: Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro?

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Yes, I said it. But i ment his 2009 FH, not the current version of it. It's still one of the best and his money shot, but not that good that players can't get it back. That's why he soses against Novak, Murray, Ferrer... They just get his FH back to him (to his BH) and his massive stoke from the previous shot is neutralised. Against the guys like Berdych or Tsonga, he can just outpower them and beat them, no problem... And by the way, 'today' i would say Nadal's topspin FH is the best shot in the game (nout counting Isner's 1st serve)
His forehand is back, imo. He has been hitting it great since the Olympics. In OG, his FH was deadly against Nishikori, Federer and Djokovic, it was the first time since his comeback he hit it like it was 2009 all over again and he kept that up I think. He won a match vs Troicki while slicing every BH simply because as soon as he got to hit one single FH during a rally the point was over. Against Novak in USO, he had no BH (wrist problem), he hit 0 BH winners, all the trouble he caused to Novak in that match came from his awesome forehand. He has finally gotten over that mental barrier and is hitting his FH in full flow again, I think.

Yes, the biggest weapon in men's tennis is definitely Isner's serve. In terms of groundstrokes, it'd have to be a forehand and it'd come down to Federer, Nadal or Del Potro's. Nadal's topspin FH is a great shout definitely, not only is it a deadly shot, it also makes him a bad matchup for the vast majority of the tour. Federer has the most versatile FH maybe ever. JMDP trumps everyone for sheer power/pace.
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:27 AM   #24
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Default Re: Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro?

I can't goodrep you Lenders, but I completely agree with you! You are a great tennis analyst.
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Nadal of course. He and Djokovic are by far the most likeable members in top 4.

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As a knowledgable tennis fan (unlike some people here), I can tell you exactly that. There are tennis players who have problems with playing indoor tennis because of the different lights, different sounds etc. compared to outdoors and Nadal is obvioulsy one of those players.
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:35 AM   #25
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Default Re: Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro?

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I can't goodrep you Lenders, but I completely agree with you! You are a great tennis analyst.
I can't goodrep you either, but I'll make sure to get back to this post and rep it when I can. It deserves it, you can definitely recognize a great tennis analyst when you see one Seriously, thanks

Hope the predictions in your sig both come true, especially the first one
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:37 AM   #26
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Default Re: Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro?

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(finish the sentence)
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:39 AM   #27
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Default Re: Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro?

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I can't goodrep you either, but I'll make sure to get back to this post and rep it when I can. It deserves it, you can definitely recognize a great tennis analyst when you see one Seriously, thanks

Hope the predictions in your sig both come true, especially the first one
I would take the 2nd one.
P.S. I can good rep you both, but I don't think I will. Maybe tomorrow
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:42 AM   #28
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Default Re: Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro?

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Whoever ________ ...

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Whoever likes fish sticks and putting them in his mouth is a gay fish...

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Old 09-23-2012, 03:54 AM   #29
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Default Re: Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro?

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I can't goodrep you either, but I'll make sure to get back to this post and rep it when I can. It deserves it, you can definitely recognize a great tennis analyst when you see one Seriously, thanks

Hope the predictions in your sig both come true, especially the first one
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Nadal of course. He and Djokovic are by far the most likeable members in top 4.

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As a knowledgable tennis fan (unlike some people here), I can tell you exactly that. There are tennis players who have problems with playing indoor tennis because of the different lights, different sounds etc. compared to outdoors and Nadal is obvioulsy one of those players.
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Old 09-23-2012, 04:01 AM   #30
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Default Re: Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro?

I went with DelPo.

DelPo is a strange player.
I try to see his matches whenever I can and see about half of them.

When DelPo plays I have a hard time figuring out how he wins.

He seems to move so slow and doesn't really hit the ball hard a lot of the time.
The serve is pretty good but not for someone as tall as he is, he should be using that height advantage more on the serve.

His endurance is lacking, at times he'll just get the ball back and many times he won't even run for balls that he can get to if he wants.
He just tries to conserve energy whenever he can.

My main gripe is his endurance, I've seen plenty of matches where he just isn't putting full effort in moving around the court.
When he does then he's drained for a few points.

There's no reason he can't be in top physical condition, if he can get this area in good shape like it was in 2009 he'll save himself a few sets before getting into the later stages of tournaments.
And when he gets to the final matches he'll not only have the extra endurance he worked for but less sets played on top of that.

I'm still waiting for prime Delpo.
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