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Old 09-20-2012, 02:35 AM   #61
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Default Re: The dumbest article ever on bleacherreport ... must see it !

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Originally Posted by hipolymer View Post
Nadull winning another hard court slam. He barely won RG last year (rain saved him).
Rain saved Djokovic from being straight setted is more like it. 6-4 6-3 2-0, remember...? Also having to save MP's against Clownga on clay and mugging around for 5 sets...
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:37 AM   #62
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Default Re: The dumbest article ever on bleacherreport ... must see it !

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Rain saved Djokovic from being straight setted is more like it. 6-4 6-3 2-0, remember...? Also having to save MP's against Clownga on clay and mugging around for 5 sets...
Losing 2-0 is different from losing 8 games in a row.
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:40 AM   #63
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Default Re: The dumbest article ever on bleacherreport ... must see it !

Sadly we will never know what would have happened if that 2nd rain delay didn't happen. But I doubt Nole would have turned it around. If he can't even do it against Mugray.... , then how would it be possible against Nadal
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:45 AM   #64
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Default Re: The dumbest article ever on bleacherreport ... must see it !

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Losing 2-0 is different from losing 8 games in a row.
Your argument was that the rain saved Nadal - when in reality he was cruising 2 sets up with a break in the third and totally lost his plot because the conditions changed...Djokovic did handle the weather better, good on him.

However, the reverse argument could also be made for Nadal coming out in better form the next day, immediatly breaking back and playing a little better (though both were mediocre).

I mean in AO this year, Nadal was a break up in the 5th, just had to hold twice. He couldn't do it, but it was close. I'd say Nadal was a lot closer to winning AO than Djokovic to winning RG, rain or no rain. It wasn't even a 5 setter.
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:52 AM   #65
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Default Re: The dumbest article ever on bleacherreport ... must see it !

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Sadly we will never know what would have happened if that 2nd rain delay didn't happen. But I doubt Nole would have turned it around. If he can't even do it against Mugray.... , then how would it be possible against Nadal
We never know, if they continued to play in the rain (not feasible) - Nadal wasn't interested in the match wasn't adjusting well to the conditions and was bitching like Noserer after he breaks a fingernail and that was affecting his play - it was as bad as the IW fiaso with the wind. On the other hand he could also have won his 3rd RG title without dropping a set, in sunny, high bouncing conditions, I simply disagree with people saying that "Nadal was saved by the rain", which just isn't true.

..Anyway, that match has little relevance if compared to this year's USO. Mandy lucked out with schedule, no Nadal, Noserer lucked out, faced chokers and he pretty much grinded down Djokovic in the end. We'll see what happens at AO, I have a feeling Mandy is in for a disappointment if he thinks his road to slams will be as easy as this year's USO
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:59 AM   #66
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Default Re: The dumbest article ever on bleacherreport ... must see it !

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We never know, if they continued to play in the rain (not feasible) - Nadal wasn't interested in the match wasn't adjusting well to the conditions and was bitching like Noserer after he breaks a fingernail and that was affecting his play - it was as bad as the IW fiaso with the wind. On the other hand he could also have won his 3rd RG title without dropping a set, in sunny, high bouncing conditions, I simply disagree with people saying that "Nadal was saved by the rain", which just isn't true.

..Anyway, that match has little relevance if compared to this year's USO. Mandy lucked out with schedule, no Nadal, Noserer lucked out, faced chokers and he pretty much grinded down Djokovic in the end. We'll see what happens at AO, I have a feeling Mandy is in for a disappointment if he thinks his road to slams will be as easy as this year's USO
If Nadal had taken Ferrer's quarter Murray's win would have been even easier. Djoker easily brushed Ferrer aside in that delayed semi. Imagine having to face Nadal instead? A 5 hour war and the bones would have been picked apart the next day.
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:35 AM   #67
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Default Re: The dumbest article ever on bleacherreport ... must see it !

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Old 09-20-2012, 08:14 AM   #68
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Default Re: The dumbest article ever on bleacherreport ... must see it !

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I've read that too, but you can't just "create" a players mentality like that. His exceptional mentality is of course trained by uncle Toni, but you also got to have it in you. If Nadal wasn't exceptionally gifted in the mental area and in terms of fighting spirit, he would have just said to uncle "fuck this man, I am gonna play some playstation" but he didn't: he accepted these trainings and let uncle Toni made him even tougher than he is. What I want to say is: he has always been a terrific fighter and willing to sacrifice everything for his tennis.
partly this, partly he was very obedient, I don't think Toni would have reacted well if Rafael had told him that, for sure he would have received a huge slap, not all parents are like weak modern parents

he would have complained to his parents for sure, but it seems that Nadal's parents were aware of that anyway.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:19 AM   #69
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Default Re: The dumbest article ever on bleacherreport ... must see it !

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And please don't mention Dimitrov. That kid is all style with little substance. You know why he can't play as effectively as Fed? Because his balance, timing and precision are nowhere near Fed's level. Not to mention the difference in instinct (Well, that's not exactly technical but mental ).
I think the main difference between Fed and Dimitrov is the speed of the footwork, Dimitrov has good balance imo but not so good timing, yes.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:22 AM   #70
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Default Re: The dumbest article ever on bleacherreport ... must see it !

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I understood. Well, I have more "classik" position I guess. If I had tried to find close word to what I mean in "talent" speaking about tennis, I would chose "shotmaking". The more possible shots from different positions (differents surfaces-bounce-position on court) you can create, the more talented player you are. Easier - the more different things you can do on court, if you can regularly win points in different ways, the more talented you are (I mean for me ).

Nothing wrong with Nadal, he is talented tennis player. But no, not in the same league with Federer.
that's why I didn't say Nadal was "the most talented", but that he was "more gifted" than Federer. But I can accept what the guy from Bleacherreport meant as it probably was the overall "natural gift"

I don't like the word "talent" at all because it means different things in the meantime :

- natural gift (opposed to hard work generally), which includes many aspects which are not included in what people often use for the word "talent" in tennis, which is a very specific sport for the use of the word "talent", I think.

- "technical" talent

The problem is that, as people in tennis only want to speak of "technical talent", they don't speak of "natural gift", also hence the way Nadal is always described as the hardest worker of all, which imo is wrong : his uncle said that they never needed to practise fitnessing because Nadal was so strong naturally, and his uncle even said that there are exercises he can't practise because of his knee ! I'm not sure but I think he can't run especially. Running has always been a big part of training in tennis, speak to Ferrer or Lendl or Monfils or many others. Djokovic for sure has to work harder than Nadal as he's less naturally gifted (the question may also be raised if he uses PEDs but that's another question).

Besides, I think Nadal is hugely talented, also for what people mean usually in tennis, although probably not as much as Fed.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:39 AM   #71
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Default Re: The dumbest article ever on bleacherreport ... must see it !

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Then reason why Federers balance and precision on his shots are so good of course has to do with talent but is mostly due to hours and days and years of training. Those factors can be pretty much trained as much (of even more) than certain physical abilities. Federer can train as much as he want, he Will never have Nadals power or endurance. On the other hand I think It's "easier" for Nadal to improve his shots, precision and timing by working and training, thus proving this has maybe less to do with talent than his physical gifts.
yes that's the biggest question : what's more related to natural gifts or to training ? Nadal's physique or Fed's "balance and precision" ?

The way people use "talent" in tennis only for "balance, touch, timing and precision" whereas "talent" also is supposed to mean "natural gift", seems to mean that this is the only thing which can't be reached only by work.
And seems to mean that physical power can anyway be reached through hard work.

I'm sorry : I think like you that hardly anybody on Tour could get Nadal's physical strength whatever their work. And it was the same for Borg. I think both are freaks of nature. Toni indeed said that Nadal didn't need to practise fitness because he was so strong naturally.

And it's not clear to me at all that it's easier to get Nadal's physique through hard work than Fed's balance and precision.

PS : Nadal also has a great timing, balance and precision and Fed a great physique, of course.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:44 AM   #72
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Default Re: The dumbest article ever on bleacherreport ... must see it !

Title needs to be changed, it's a very good article
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:48 AM   #73
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Default Re: The dumbest article ever on bleacherreport ... must see it !

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Yes , my "talents" weren't mean sarcastically, I was giving duong credit for his good post because I also agree that the word talent is often under used. I agree he hits groundstrokes in a unique way, but this also wouldn't be possible without his fanatsic athletical talent. You have to have a lot of power in the upper body to execute certain shots like he does and I meant that this physical strength is his main talent, because he never really did that much to become this powerful.
I think, probably like you, that his shots need both great physique and great "balance, timing and precision". There's no doubt that Nadal has an unbelievable coordination as well.

But I think his shots need an unbelievable physique as well.

For one reason especially : the biggest problems of players who use a lot of spin, who are few in modern days comparing to the time of Carlsson and Perez-Roldan, is to have depth and speed in these shots.

IF your spinned shots have no depth as it sometimes happens to Nadal and as it especially happened to him in his young age on hardcourts, you're killed by modern hitters.

I think Nadal's main improvement with time has been more depth in his shots than playing "flatter" as some think.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:58 AM   #74
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Default Re: The dumbest article ever on bleacherreport ... must see it !

Even if this article was bleached, it'll still be a POS.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:59 AM   #75
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Default Re: The dumbest article ever on bleacherreport ... must see it !

MTF has enough clowns, don't need import stuff from the Bleacher Report.
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I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
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