With the slowing of the surfaces and mega defense, should modern players volley more? - Page 2 - MensTennisForums.com

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Old 09-11-2012, 02:08 AM   #16
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Default Re: With the slowing of the surfaces and mega defense, should modern players volley m

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski View Post
Djokovic threw in a sv after 4.5 hours and won the point.

If it had dawned on him to try and shorten points a bit earlier he might not have been dead in the fifth set.

The reluctance to get to the net was ridiculous at times tonight. That 20 shot rally that eventually ended with Djokovic falling over and Murray hitting a winner was a perfect example.

Djokovic hit 5 defensive slices in a row from 3 m behind baseline just to stay in the point but for reasons only known to himself, Murray stayed back.

In hindsight maybe he was cunningly trying to extend points as long as possible.

Speed of conditions was a joke overall though. There was probably 5 or 6 clean winners with both players at the baseline all night.

I don't care how well they defend, that's obscene on what is supposed to be the fast hardcourt slam
+1 to everything.
Stepanek in particular could teach these guys sooooo much about the transition game. Both guys literally don't have one and it makes them have to do so much more than necessary point after point.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:11 AM   #17
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Default Re: With the slowing of the surfaces and mega defense, should modern players volley m

You know the courts have been slowed down too much when you see 53 shot rallies at the US Open. Injecting a bit of speed back into the traditionally faster courts wouldn't hurt the game.

Preferably wait until the end of 2013 though, I want David Ferrer to win Wimbledon before Raonic takes over when they replant pre-millenium grass for Wimbledon 2014.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:19 AM   #18
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Default Re: With the slowing of the surfaces and mega defense, should modern players volley m

First is people need to learn how to volley. Sure, many of them know how to volley, as in their techniques are fine, but they play really poor approach shots and make really volleying decisions. Someone like Rafa only comes in to cut a shot off and hit a short volley, but you see how often he fails to win the point when the point isn't necessarily in his favor. I mean watch past greats, or even someone like Federer now, they don't necessarily need to be on top of the point, but the play the right volley giving them control of the point.

So yes volleys have never lost their effectiveness but these players don't practice the plays enough for them to be confident with volleying during actual matches. They just need to practice working the point with approach shots/volleys more like they do with baseline rallies and they'll be able to take advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke944 View Post
+1 to everything.
Stepanek in particular could teach these guys sooooo much about the transition game. Both guys literally don't have one and it makes them have to do so much more than necessary point after point.
Stepanek is rather shit IMO... As several commentators have pointed out, he has a huge tendency to not put volleys away when he clearly can punch through the volley, he tries to guide the ball it seems. Then you have someone like Tsonga who IMO probably overplays too many of his volleys. Really in today's game, there isn't anyone that has the true sense of how and when to volley. There are plenty with great technique or great touch, but they construct the point and the eventual volley correctly, which is why they get passed.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:24 AM   #19
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Default Re: With the slowing of the surfaces and mega defense, should modern players volley m

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Originally Posted by Smoke944 View Post
+1 to everything.
Stepanek in particular could teach these guys sooooo much about the transition game. Both guys literally don't have one and it makes them have to do so much more than necessary point after point.
True, but if like Stepanek you look to approach and volley at the earliest opportunity then the opponent will anticipate having to hit the passing shot and position won't position himself several feet behind the baseline. The examples from the US Open final that Henry Chinaski mentions are good examples of when it would be wise to come in to volley because the opponent wasn't in a good place in terms of court positioning to deal with it.

Ultimately it takes the ability to execute a varied game coupled with a degree of tactical nous to be able to pull it off successfully. I agree with HKz above that if the volleying isn't of a high standard then it's just too risky to come to the net that often. I'll just add to his post that the player's ability to execute a good approach shot is very important as well - not just the technique on the final volley.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:27 AM   #20
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Default What a great match!!! LOL

Congrats to Murray for getting the monkey off his back. I am sure all the fanboys and sponsers are happy. He is sure to inspire a new breed of tennis players.

BTW, this match was proof that mens tennis has been surface homginized to the point where its pretty much like watching the womens game now. Believe it or not people used to come into the net when they had someone stretch out hitting fluff slice forehands and backhands and put away volleys. Some of them even served and then came straight to the net to volley......

I think I will go back and watch the US Open semifinal Rafter VS Sampras tonight or maybe 1992 semi Edberg VS Chang to be reminded how great this sport used to be.

I watched almost all of this tourny and really cant recall a truely great and interesting match. Kohlschrieber VS Isner was kind of interesting but John's losing matches usually are.

I will say this....With these guys playing like they are its only a matter of time before a really good serve and volleyer makes his way up the rankings.

They have really screwed up this game with the whole "protect the top players" mentality. The US Open plays like a clay court now and they are seeding way too many players in the slams. It gives people a false impression of this modern era. Kind of reminds me of the laver era where 3 of 4 was on grass.

As it stands now the ATP is becomming the WTA very fast in terms of the way it is played.

Some may remember I once told people tennis was officially a girly sport once Federer walked on court with a purse. Todays final clinched it for me.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:30 AM   #21
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Default Re: What a great match!!! LOL

USO is oficially blue clay now. Just look at the winners/unforced errors ratio. Once Federer retires Tennis will be pretty much dead with just a bunch of pushers trying to see who can last longer before collapse.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:40 AM   #22
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Default Re: What a great match!!! LOL

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Originally Posted by brithater View Post
....BTW, this match was proof that mens tennis has been surface homginized to the point where its pretty much like watching the womens game now....
Say what you will about the WTA -- and today's final -- but no female contender playing like this is winning a slam.

To be fair to Nole and Andy, their mobility and defense are often super-human. And the conditions made being aggressive even more risky and less rewarding than it typically is in their contests.

....
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:40 AM   #23
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Default Re: With the slowing of the surfaces and mega defense, should modern players volley m

The courts in the US open are fast hard courts, as fast as it gets outdoors. It is because you have Djokovic and Murray that can play unbelievable defense that it makes the court seems slower. But there were plenty of matches, Berdych and Federer that were pretty fast. When you got players with the defensive skills and athleticism of Murray and Djokovic you can put them in a ice Cap and they will retrieve balls over and over.

This court slowing down, there is some true to it, but is not the main reason, even in fast courts the game doesn't change that much, grass is not slow nor is the US open, the courts are not that different from 10 years ago, the difference is the players keep on improving their court coverage skills and racquet technology helps it too.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:56 AM   #24
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Default Re: What a great match!!! LOL

Luckily tennis is going that direction. I cant understand why people want these "only serve" guys like Isner in the top.

Wait for a couple of raonic - isner 5-set matches and see if u still want these guys up at the top, when in 3 hours of tennis u see about 5 or 6 rallies
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:01 AM   #25
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Default Re: With the slowing of the surfaces and mega defense, should modern players volley m

Even Nadal would have finished 10 times more points at the net that either Murray or Djok did today. It was that bad.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:01 AM   #26
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Default Re: What a great match!!! LOL

Of course its super human they are world class athletes silly.

Dont let the commentator hype mess with your head. They always say things like....best returner ever....best defense ever.....most powerful ever. Its all part of there job. Commentators are sports promoters now more than anything. Thats why we have bafoons in the booth instead of real analists.

There were players with just as good of defense 20 years ago as there are today. They were a lot smaller too. I will say that this era serioussly lack offensive players. Jim Courier would have won 10 majors in this era.

I am truely amazed at how the sponsors and corperate blah blah have fubared this game at the professional level. I honestly did not think tennis would get as wrecked as other professional sports but court surface tinkering and 30 something seeds the the breaking point. I really dont see how this sport can recover.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:04 AM   #27
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Default Re: With the slowing of the surfaces and mega defense, should modern players volley m

volleying and attacking tennis should be rewarded at the us open, and wimbledon

australian open should favour everything

the grindfests should be saved for the french

this is why the career grand slam and reaching all slam finals has been cheapened

4 players (laver, agassi, courier, edberg) in 30 years. then 3 in 6 years. disgusting stuff

no doubt that djokovic is the wimbldeon champion with the worst, volleys, overhead and approach shots in the open era

that's not his fault of course, his body destroying retrieving game has gotten him 4 more slams in this slow court era
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:10 AM   #28
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Default Re: What a great match!!! LOL

Andy and Nole are the best players out there on hard courts currently. Today's match was a great one, and the rallies were a cause of the conditions aligned with their superior movement and defence.

Don't get the complaints. If I hadn't kept falling off the edge of my seat and having chest pains during the forth set, I'd have been severely entertained.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:12 AM   #29
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Default Re: With the slowing of the surfaces and mega defense, should modern players volley m

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Originally Posted by HKz View Post



Stepanek is rather shit IMO... As several commentators have pointed out, he has a huge tendency to not put volleys away when he clearly can punch through the volley, he tries to guide the ball it seems. Then you have someone like Tsonga who IMO probably overplays too many of his volleys. Really in today's game, there isn't anyone that has the true sense of how and when to volley. There are plenty with great technique or great touch, but they construct the point and the eventual volley correctly, which is why they get passed.
Stepanek might not be the best volleyer in terms of putting away volleys and overheads but he's certainly not shit and TBH he understands the game better than anyone else I see out there. He has nothing in his game approaching a weapon, doesn't have consistent strokes off both wings (forehand is really poor), and he's not strong nor fast. So please tell me how he got to 8 in the world and has had such a successful career if not for superior understanding of the game.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:15 AM   #30
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Default Re: What a great match!!! LOL

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Originally Posted by DarkMarc View Post
Luckily tennis is going that direction. I cant understand why people want these "only serve" guys like Isner in the top.

Wait for a couple of raonic - isner 5-set matches and see if u still want these guys up at the top, when in 3 hours of tennis u see about 5 or 6 rallies
Hope not. Isner is kind of a joke. Its really not tennis. It is fun though when people find tactics to give him a taste of his own medicine and make him uncomfortable.

There is more to tennis than serves and groundstrokes though. The way the game is tilted right now half of the game is missing. Serve and volley and all court tactics opens a whole new world up. I dont want to see one style favored over the other I want to see all styles...battle it out useing different styles of play etc. etc.

Serioussly.... it was like watching a girls match today. Slices landing short...player running forward to hit a nueral ball and then retreating back to the baseline to hit a defensive floating slice ?!?! I bet Lendle has had a few chuckles with Murray about what players can get away with in this era. He probably tells Murray at how Edberg would never let you get away with that garbage.

It was really quite comical watching these two play today. I was LOL quite a bit. My wife even said they were playing kind of girly.
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