John Millman talking about Challenger tour & financial issues. What's not happening - Page 3 - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

Reply

Old 09-05-2012, 01:58 PM   #31
country flag Rumour
Registered User
 
Rumour's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hapa na Pale
Posts: 2,704
Rumour has a reputation beyond reputeRumour has a reputation beyond reputeRumour has a reputation beyond reputeRumour has a reputation beyond reputeRumour has a reputation beyond reputeRumour has a reputation beyond reputeRumour has a reputation beyond reputeRumour has a reputation beyond reputeRumour has a reputation beyond reputeRumour has a reputation beyond reputeRumour has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: John Millman talking about Challenger tour & financial issues. What's not happeni

Some of Millman's arguments simply go along with the territory of living in a huge, geographically isolated yet pretty sparsely populated country I seriously doubt it would be economically viable to drastically increase the overall number of tournaments in Australia to a level comparable with that of most of the other coutries cited in his list. Even so, there is definitely room for improvement in terms of where smaller events are located and increasing player funding/prize money.

Quote:
Spain- 5 challengers, 33 futures
Italy- 18 challengers, 28 Futures
France- 7 Challengers, 22 Futures
Germany- 7 Challengers, 20 Futures
Turkey- 3 challngers, 46 futures
USA- 14 Challengers, 32 futures
Brazil- 7 challengers, 27 futures
AUSTRALIA- 2 Challengers, 12 Futures
Some of these figures do make me wonder why there isn't more top level talent coming from certain countries though Perhaps a case could be made that having dozens of challengers and futures in close proximity contributes to a bunch of mediocre journeymen, content to simply eke out a living in their backyard rather than strive for better things. Of course some of these places may serve as regional 'hubs' by attracting many players from surrounding countries but still...
__________________
Rmr

The only thing you owe the public is a good performance.
Humphrey Bogart [1899-1957]
Rumour is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 09-05-2012, 02:40 PM   #32
country flag Johnny Groove
Future ATP Star
 
Johnny Groove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida
Age: 24
Posts: 34,973
Johnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: John Millman talking about Challenger tour & financial issues. What's not happeni

Turkey is the place to be, it seems.

Millman is right, of course. It is not just an Australian problem, but a global problem. Prize money and challengers need to be increased without a doubt.

I have a dream, that one day, a player can lose first round in futures qualies and break even. Any more and he would be in the green.
__________________
Respect the Laws of MTF
Brush up on your tennis history, people- Top 101 Tennis Players of all Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathaliia View Post
What do you like doing on MTF most?
Reading Johnny Groove threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwires View Post
Johnny blurs the line between grandeur and grandiose
Johnny Groove is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 02:51 PM   #33
country flag Wing Man Frank
Banned!
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,660
Wing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: John Millman talking about Challenger tour & financial issues. What's not happeni

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Groove View Post
Turkey is the place to be, it seems.

Millman is right, of course. It is not just an Australian problem, but a global problem. Prize money and challengers need to be increased without a doubt.

I have a dream, that one day, a player can lose first round in futures qualies and break even. Any more and he would be in the green.
Can see where you are coming from but surely there has to be a tipping point in which sub-standard performances aren't merely rewarded with a player breaking even?

Sport is a business at the end of the day and just like poorly performing companies individuals should also have to suffer if they go through a period of mediocrity.
Wing Man Frank is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 03:00 PM   #34
country flag Johnny Groove
Future ATP Star
 
Johnny Groove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida
Age: 24
Posts: 34,973
Johnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: John Millman talking about Challenger tour & financial issues. What's not happeni

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
Can see where you are coming from but surely there has to be a tipping point in which sub-standard performances aren't merely rewarded with a player breaking even?

Sport is a business at the end of the day and just like poorly performing companies individuals should also have to suffer if they go through a period of mediocrity.
Maybe I was being too generous.

I think if you win one match in qualifying futures, which is beyond difficult, you should break even. If you qualify and make the main draw, you should definitely make more than $107.50, which is what it is now, which is beyond a joke.
__________________
Respect the Laws of MTF
Brush up on your tennis history, people- Top 101 Tennis Players of all Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathaliia View Post
What do you like doing on MTF most?
Reading Johnny Groove threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwires View Post
Johnny blurs the line between grandeur and grandiose
Johnny Groove is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 03:03 PM   #35
country flag MacTheKnife
10S NE1
 
MacTheKnife's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 10,567
MacTheKnife has a reputation beyond reputeMacTheKnife has a reputation beyond reputeMacTheKnife has a reputation beyond reputeMacTheKnife has a reputation beyond reputeMacTheKnife has a reputation beyond reputeMacTheKnife has a reputation beyond reputeMacTheKnife has a reputation beyond reputeMacTheKnife has a reputation beyond reputeMacTheKnife has a reputation beyond reputeMacTheKnife has a reputation beyond reputeMacTheKnife has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: John Millman talking about Challenger tour & financial issues. What's not happeni

That's correct and I understand what you meant. Simply getting into the event via qualifying should be rewarded with more than breaking even. Those that have not struggled in this sport will probably not understand that.
__________________
YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS
MacTheKnife is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 03:08 PM   #36
country flag duong
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,346
duong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: John Millman talking about Challenger tour & financial issues. What's not happeni

I'm not surprised that people try to go into a general debate rather than focusing on the article itself, which is about Australian tennis. No Johnny_Groove, the Australian problem is different from the global problem, that's precisely what Millman says : in your case, there are many many futures and if ever you improve enough, challengers, in the USA.

This article is very interesting because it gives me an answer why so many Australian players stop their carreer early.

I had already guessed that the distance was the main reason why it was so tough for Australian players to emerge on the adult Tour comparing to ones from other countries, because they clearly have it tougher than the others.

But I had not thought yet of that financial dimension which makes their situation even worse.

From this article, I can read that Tennis Australia has a "100% priority on youngsters" policy, but from my observation I think this policy is a failure if you consider that so many of their players who were promising in youngsters didn't perform as well among adults. And it happened much more often for Australian players than for other countries/continents'.

Clearly Millman gives clues to another policy to help those players to develop.

Clearly players emerge in the top-100 at an older and older age, then focusing everything on youngsters and not helping those who can't make their way at once among adults, is a mistake.

A guy like Benoît Paire in France had been completely abandoned by the French federation ... and see where he is now ? clearly it was possible for him to go his own way without the Federation's help because it's much easier for an European player and especially a French player to go their way in challengers and futures than for Australian ones.

PS : about the debate about challengers and futures, as far as I know, the ATP doesn't subside ATP World Tour and ATP challenger tournaments, it's more of a "market economy" and clearly at the moment, the challenger economy is not good as the number of challengers has decreased recently. Futures are different but don't depend on the ATP, and clearly the Australian Federation could do something here considering that they're quite a rich federation.
__________________
useless old guy

Last edited by duong : 09-05-2012 at 03:16 PM.
duong is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 03:22 PM   #37
country flag Wing Man Frank
Banned!
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,660
Wing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: John Millman talking about Challenger tour & financial issues. What's not happeni

duong, what would be wrong with Millman and the like basing themselves elsewhere? Tennis is a global game, why do they need to be based in Australia? Makes no sense to me.
Wing Man Frank is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 03:23 PM   #38
country flag Sombrerero loco
Registered User
 
Sombrerero loco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Age: 25
Posts: 40,148
Sombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: John Millman talking about Challenger tour & financial issues. What's not happeni

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Groove View Post

I think if you win one match in qualifying futures, which is beyond difficult, you should break even. If you qualify and make the main draw, you should definitely make more than $107.50, which is what it is now, which is beyond a joke.
i agree so much with this
__________________
Henri KONTINEN

Jerzy Janowicz/Bernard the aTomic /Thanasi Kokkinakis/Kei Nishikori

John Millman / Javier Martí/Taro Daniel-Jules Marie-Josh Milton


Henkka Kontinen
-Nick Kyrgios-Henri Laaksonen- Attila Balazs- Pierre Hugues Herbert-Alex Bolt-Marcus Willis-Kristijan Mesaros-Berankis-Chris Rungkat-Piotr Gadomski-Kike Lopez-Perez
www.tennisalternative.com
Sombrerero loco is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 03:25 PM   #39
country flag Sombrerero loco
Registered User
 
Sombrerero loco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Age: 25
Posts: 40,148
Sombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond reputeSombrerero loco has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: John Millman talking about Challenger tour & financial issues. What's not happeni

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
duong, what would be wrong with Millman and the like basing themselves elsewhere? Tennis is a global game, why do they need to be based in Australia? Makes no sense to me.
still its difficult if you have to be 30 weeks out of your country every year. i mean, very far from your country

if they had some challengers actually you can spend part of the year in australia, and part of the year abroad. it makes it easier you know
__________________
Henri KONTINEN

Jerzy Janowicz/Bernard the aTomic /Thanasi Kokkinakis/Kei Nishikori

John Millman / Javier Martí/Taro Daniel-Jules Marie-Josh Milton


Henkka Kontinen
-Nick Kyrgios-Henri Laaksonen- Attila Balazs- Pierre Hugues Herbert-Alex Bolt-Marcus Willis-Kristijan Mesaros-Berankis-Chris Rungkat-Piotr Gadomski-Kike Lopez-Perez
www.tennisalternative.com
Sombrerero loco is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 03:33 PM   #40
country flag Wing Man Frank
Banned!
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,660
Wing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond reputeWing Man Frank has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: John Millman talking about Challenger tour & financial issues. What's not happeni

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombrerero loco View Post
still its difficult if you have to be 30 weeks out of your country every year. i mean, very far from your country

if they had some challengers actually you can spend part of the year in australia, and part of the year abroad. it makes it easier you know
Of course, I understand that, but surely that's the sacrifice of a professional sportsman? I'm playing devils advocate here, because I think Tennis Australia should definitely be doing more, just think for what is a pretty short career that if it's a good idea to move away then you should.
Wing Man Frank is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 03:38 PM   #41
country flag duong
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,346
duong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond reputeduong has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: John Millman talking about Challenger tour & financial issues. What's not happeni

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
duong, what would be wrong with Millman and the like basing themselves elsewhere? Tennis is a global game, why do they need to be based in Australia? Makes no sense to me.
it's possible but tough.

Even as far as tennis is concerned, they've improved their tennis as youngsters with people around them, in their country. That's the people who know them and can help them more easily.

And as far as Australian tennis is concerned, I think they help youngsters to develop a lot then it's even more likely that they had a lot of people around them when they were youngsters.

It's different from Nishikori or Krajinovic who have developed their tennis in Bollettieri's academy.

The article speaks a little bit of a policy I had already heard about of Tennis Australia encouraging their players to play a lot in other continents (Kubler, Duckworth and Mitchell have played a lot in Europe for instance), but I don't know the details of the "encouragement" which necessarily means "support", including financial, and I don't think older players like Millman or Klein or Jones (who are Nishikori's age, I mean they're not oldies in today's game) can get it.
__________________
useless old guy
duong is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 11:01 PM   #42
country flag Action Jackson
Forum Umpire:
Gaston Gaudio
 
Action Jackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 124,464
Action Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: John Millman talking about Challenger tour & financial issues. What's not happeni

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
duong, what would be wrong with Millman and the like basing themselves elsewhere? Tennis is a global game, why do they need to be based in Australia? Makes no sense to me.
He plays lower league level tennis in Germany during the summer. He isn't quite good enough as a non EU national to get the one foreign spot in the top Bundesliga sides.

It's a joke when even the guys ranked 100 are struggling let alone at the Futures/Chall level. Carlos Berlocq only made money in the last 2 seasons where he was able to pay off his sponsor before that he was losing money.
__________________
On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
Action Jackson is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 12:43 AM   #43
country flag dencod16
Registered User
 
dencod16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,427
dencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: John Millman talking about Challenger tour & financial issues. What's not happeni

This is exactly the problem, don't get why they keep attacking WTA it will not change get over it. I hope that they just encourage ITF to actually give their excess income to ITF events as prize money rather than it going to prize money in slams.
dencod16 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 02:00 AM   #44
country flag grahampros
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 464
grahampros has a reputation beyond reputegrahampros has a reputation beyond reputegrahampros has a reputation beyond reputegrahampros has a reputation beyond reputegrahampros has a reputation beyond reputegrahampros has a reputation beyond reputegrahampros has a reputation beyond reputegrahampros has a reputation beyond reputegrahampros has a reputation beyond reputegrahampros has a reputation beyond reputegrahampros has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: John Millman talking about Challenger tour & financial issues. What's not happeni

Like any professional sport, tennis is a BUSINESS. The challengers/futures tour generates little revenue, so the prize money will be slim. That's pretty true in any sport. If your not good enough to play the main events and hang around, you shouldn't be doing it for the money. It just will never be there.

Last edited by grahampros : 09-06-2012 at 02:10 AM.
grahampros is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 02:07 AM   #45
country flag dencod16
Registered User
 
dencod16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,427
dencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond reputedencod16 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: John Millman talking about Challenger tour & financial issues. What's not happeni

Quote:
Originally Posted by grahampros View Post
Like any professional sport, tennis is a BUSINESS. The challengers/futures tour generates little revenue, so the prize money will be slim. That's pretty true in any sport. If your not get enough to play the main events and hang around, you shouldn't be doing it for the money. It just will never be there.
Like any professional sport, they have a organization that should look out for them, which clearly they aren't doing.
dencod16 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios