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Old 09-03-2012, 05:12 AM   #46
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Default Re: Bernard Tomic SLAMMED by Rafter, Masur - may be left out of Davis Cup

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
different strokes to different folks. hewitt's racism for example used to upset me much more than any lack of effort in a match but i can understand how white australians in particular and most of MTF might think differently.

that said, i doubt tomic is the first player to tank or to give a poor effort in a set (third set in tomic's case in the match you cite). it just happens that some conceal their tanks better than others.
In n way the first. I've seen far worse. Hey at least he didn't fake a injury and get off the court i've seen some player do. Some very high level ones actually. I'm not saying Aussies should be defending him at this point, but you also have to balance that with it was kid who didn't show his best instead of he's the devil.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:28 AM   #47
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Default Re: Bernard Tomic SLAMMED by Rafter, Masur - may be left out of Davis Cup

No one here knows what was said to him privately, or how times it was said. If he's still thumbing his nose and laughing at them, he's left them no choice but to say something publicly. Otherwise, to the Australian tennis-following public, it looks like the Federation does nothing about it and/or condones his lack of interest. That's the problem with doing things privately.

How many times do you suppose this has happened:

Tennis Australia: We'll give you a WC to play a slam/put you in the DC team, but you have to improve your work ethic/training/fitness/etc in the future.

Tomic: Okay, I promise I will.

.... 4 months later ....

Tennis Australia: You didn't change one bit since last time! you said you'd improve! You're still our best prospect, so we'll get you a WC to play another slam/put you in the DC team, one more time... but you have to improve your work ethic/training/fitness/etc.

Tomic: Sorry, yes you're right. I will work harder.

.... 4 months later ....

Tennis Australia: I can't believe we're having this conversation again! You totally blew us off. Look you're pretty much our only prospect, so we'll get you a WC to play another slam/put you in the DC team, but you have to work harder and this time I mean it!

Tomic: you're absolutely right; I promise to do as you say. ()

I mean at some point you have to follow through on some kind of consequences or else the behaviour will never change. YOu just look like a spineless loser who will keep giving in.

(I realize he doesn't need the WCs anymore but I'm just trying to show a pattern here)
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:34 AM   #48
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Default Re: Bernard Tomic SLAMMED by Rafter, Masur - may be left out of Davis Cup

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Originally Posted by Kat_YYZ View Post
No one here knows what was said to him privately, or how times it was said.
And you do? Save your pointless dialogues for the ones who in a crazy house... wait, come to think of it, you might be in the right place.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:39 AM   #49
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Default Re: Bernard Tomic SLAMMED by Rafter, Masur - may be left out of Davis Cup

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
And you do? Save your pointless dialogues for the ones who in a crazy house... wait, come to think of it, you might be in the right place.
National tennis associations have little control over players anyway. That model is long dead. The kid either wants to win or he doesn't and he will have to sort that choice out himself. He needs a great coach and mentors if he's serious, the public bashing wont change anything.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:52 AM   #50
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Default Re: Bernard Tomic SLAMMED by Rafter, Masur - may be left out of Davis Cup

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no, the fact that you "own Aussies" are slamming him speaks bad of australia in general
You obviously have no idea what kind of reputation Tomic has, outside of tennis. And no, don't blame on it his parents, because it was his own choice on how to live his life. I for one despise it, but everyone has different opinions on the issue.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:52 AM   #51
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Default Re: Bernard Tomic SLAMMED by Rafter, Masur - may be left out of Davis Cup

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
And you do? Save your pointless dialogues for the ones who in a crazy house... wait, come to think of it, you might be in the right place.
I am trying to make a point -- not to assert that this conversation actually happened. I'm trying to make a point about how there has to be something at stake. There have to be consequences, otherwise what's the point of all the begging, pleading, empty threats, etc, if you will always just cave in?

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Originally Posted by grahampros View Post
National tennis associations have little control over players anyway. That model is long dead. The kid either wants to win or he doesn't and he will have to sort that choice out himself. He needs a great coach and mentors if he's serious, the public bashing wont change anything.
Well, then why do you care what TA says about him? Why should they sit silent and let him continue to make fools of them? If they want to cut their losses and send a message to the next generation that they as an organization refuse to be taken advantage of, then that's what they have to do.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:01 AM   #52
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Default Re: Bernard Tomic SLAMMED by Rafter, Masur - may be left out of Davis Cup

What did Tomic say?
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:02 AM   #53
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Default Re: Bernard Tomic SLAMMED by Rafter, Masur - may be left out of Davis Cup

They'll all come crawling back once he starts sweeping the slams. They shouldn't have this debate publicly. Tomic is only 19. Why is he being used as a scape goat for their shortcomings? Doubt they'd have beaten Germany anyway so I'm sure Bernard isn't too bothered. HOWEVER I do agree that his attitude is pathetic. He needs a proper coach. Someone whose opinion he can respect wholly. I'd have said Roddick's soon to be ex-coach but seeing how he didn't dissuade Roddick from pusher mode I don't think that would be advisable.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:06 AM   #54
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Default Re: Bernard Tomic SLAMMED by Rafter, Masur - may be left out of Davis Cup

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
hilarious to read this from a dimitrov tard.
Whatever you say, fake Glenn-wannabe Keep trying, maybe you will be Glenn one day

But until then, stay on topic!
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:15 AM   #55
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Default Re: Bernard Tomic SLAMMED by Rafter, Masur - may be left out of Davis Cup

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Originally Posted by Kat_YYZ View Post
I am trying to make a point -- not to assert that this conversation actually happened. I'm trying to make a point about how there has to be something at stake. There have to be consequences, otherwise what's the point of all the begging, pleading, empty threats, etc, if you will always just cave in?
and again, how do you know that has happened?

another point you miss is that Tomic doesn't owe Tennis Australia anything, much like Tennis Australia doesn't owe Tomic anything.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:19 AM   #56
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Default Re: Bernard Tomic SLAMMED by Rafter, Masur - may be left out of Davis Cup

Bernard is doing things his own way. He's not even 20. He's learning. He's learning quick enough to reach his first AO semi before he's 28. When did Patrick reach it. Just after his 28th birthday? Oh.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:22 AM   #57
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Default Re: Bernard Tomic SLAMMED by Rafter, Masur - may be left out of Davis Cup

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The work ethic of Tomic must be one of the worst of a Top 100 players, maybe only rivaled by Gulbis'. It is beyond me how little Tomic seems to care despite of the great talent he possesses. The Ozzie Davis Cup team is better off without him!


Coming from a Dimitard. Your boy showed time and time again this year that he's not physically fit for TWO best of 5 matches in a row.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:26 AM   #58
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Default Re: Bernard Tomic SLAMMED by Rafter, Masur - may be left out of Davis Cup

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They'll all come crawling back once he starts sweeping the slams. They shouldn't have this debate publicly. Tomic is only 19. Why is he being used as a scape goat for their shortcomings?
19? He's 20 in a month and has a history of 'lack of effort' since junior days if I remember right. And why should they keep quiet - should they wait that he turns 24 or 25 and gets out of top 100, like Young, before they do something about it? Could be too late then.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:30 AM   #59
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Default Re: Bernard Tomic SLAMMED by Rafter, Masur - may be left out of Davis Cup

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
no, the fact that you "own Aussies" are slamming him speaks bad of australia in general
I don't think it's the public so much as it is Tennis Australia, and every past male player - some of whom have been passed by Tomic in the way of achievements already.

Everyone - Masur, Rasheed, Rafter, Newcombe, Stolle - the boys club - want every junior to be the next Hewitt. Just a dogged fighter than never gives up on any point or any ball. Tomic is the exact opposite of that unfortunately and therefore they're all pressed

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Let's not get carried away. It's not really up to anyone to decide if he deserves to compete or not. If we went down that road you could easily kick out half the players. Get's his ranking makes the main draw, that all that matters in that regard. He nor any player is in a popularity contest to decide if he should be allowed in or not.

That said, it's very clear Aussies were embarrassed by him on the world stage and hence the anger. You really shouldn't worry so much about that. No one outside Australia even knows the kid anyway.
We're not embarrassed by him at all. We're embarrassed about the entire landscape of Australian tennis. To think Tomic can save tennis single handedly is just not common sense.

They say that we need him at the top of the game to encourage an entire generation to take up tennis and in 10 years we'll have depth of talent and numbers at the top of the game. Well, 15 years ago we had Pat Rafter, Lleyton Hewitt and Mark Phillipoussis all winning slams or making finals/semis pretty consistently - and from that it looks like the only guy who was encouraged was Tomic

The Tennis Australia boys don't ever talk about the failures of every past promising junior (Reid, Klein, Guccione - who gets to travel as Lleytons side kick all year round on Tennis Australias back, etc) but they're very quick to get on Tomic. I don't even like the kid, but to put an entire nations standing in the game on one kid is ludicrous. They're just idiots.


---

And no, I don't think publicly berating him is going to motivate him. I'm sure his dad isn't even telling him he played well when he goes down in straight sets with a bagel to Roddick. He'll get sick of losing all the time and getting no glory soon, and he'll get his ass into gear. If he doesn't, well obviously he's content with being a journeyman. That's up to him, it's his life - Tennis Australia didn't buy any right to it when they invested in him.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:32 AM   #60
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Default Re: Bernard Tomic SLAMMED by Rafter, Masur - may be left out of Davis Cup

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
no, the fact that you "own Aussies" are slamming him speaks bad of australia in general
Not really. Australians are patriotic and passionate about our sports but if one of our sportsmen acts like a tool we will call them out on it. We don't blindly support them just because of country. Pat Rafter was universally adored in Oz because he was a gentleman and a great ambassador to the game. Hewitt, during his peak years, was a polarising figure; for every fan he had, there was another who despised him – due to his conduct on court – not because of the racism issue, mind you – it was the overt screams of "Come on!" that grated on everyone's nerves and viewed as unsportsmanlike.
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