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Old 08-31-2012, 02:57 AM   #61
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Default Re: Big 4 Record Against Each Other - Now & Future

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Originally Posted by Nole fan View Post


Of course not, they're still HUMAN.
I was responding to:

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Originally Posted by Tomatoes11 View Post
that means that his losesses are coming from sources that are not so good.
which made it sound that only Nadal was losing to other people.
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Old 08-31-2012, 04:00 AM   #62
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Default Re: Big 4 Record Against Each Other - Now & Future

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Originally Posted by Matt01 View Post
No, no, no...Federer is the supposed "GOAT", of course he *should* still be competitive at 31..especially when Nadal is injured and Djokovic is in a post-slump of his stellar last season.
Being the GOAT doesn't mean you can play your best tennis all your life. Even you should be able to understand this. It's a simple concept.
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Old 08-31-2012, 05:23 AM   #63
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Default Re: Big 4 Record Against Each Other - Now & Future

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Originally Posted by Shuny View Post
Being the GOAT doesn't mean you can play your best tennis all your life. Even you should be able to understand this. It's a simple concept.
Yeah...
Tennis is not just about 4 players, you need to beat all the players constantly. That's the disctinctive of Great Roger. And the ranking point proved it
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Old 08-31-2012, 09:54 AM   #64
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Default Re: Big 4 Record Against Each Other - Now & Future

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Originally Posted by stewietennis View Post
Not a comprehensive list but since 2011 each have lost to (not counting the Top 4):

Federer – Roddick, Berdych, Tsonga, Gasquet, Melzer, Monfils
Nadal – Rosol, Verdasco, Mayer, Fish, Dodig, Tsonga, Ferrer
Djokovic – Tipsarevic x 2, Isner, Del Potro x 2, Tsonga, Ferrer
Murray – Chardy, Gasquet, Berdych x 2, Garcia-Lopez, Ferrer, Young, Bogomolov, Bellucci, Anderson

So, Nadal isn't the only one who loses to nobodies
Both Murray and Djokovich have less losses than Nadal. Federer has more but he also has A LOT more wins. Meaningless stats that are not indicative of anything, except maybe Federer's crap ton of wins, but you get the point. Things usually find a way to even themselves out and if his H2H is good but he still isn't the GOAT, then his game is obviously taking a hit somewhere important.

It's common sense and that is why H2H doesn't mean jack. It is just one minor part of the equation and the Nadull tards need to stop championing it.
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:30 PM   #65
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Default Re: Big 4 Record Against Each Other - Now & Future

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Originally Posted by Shuny View Post
Being the GOAT doesn't mean you can play your best tennis all your life. Even you should be able to understand this. It's a simple concept.

Federer didn't play his best tennis all his life. Even you should understand this simple fact.
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:22 AM   #66
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Default Re: Big 4 Record Against Each Other - Now & Future

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Originally Posted by Tomatoes11 View Post
Both Murray and Djokovich have less losses than Nadal.
Partially true if you're talking the last couple of years because Djokovic has less losses but Murray actually has more.

Last 2 years:
Federer: 59-7 in 2012; 64-12 in 2011
Nadal: 42-6 in 2012; 69-15 in 2011
Djokovic: 54-10 in 2012; 70-6 in 2011
Murray: 40-11 in 2012; 56-13 in 2011

Completely true if you're talking overall career. Nadal has one more loss than Djokovic but over 100 more wins. Nadal has three more losses than Murray but over 200 more wins.

Overall:
Federer: 866- 193
Nadal: 583-122
Djokovic: 448-121
Murray: 363-118
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:31 AM   #67
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Default Re: Big 4 Record Against Each Other - Now & Future

Djokovic will end up having a winning record against Federer and Nadal. Hopefully Murray as well.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:14 AM   #68
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Default Re: Big 4 Record Against Each Other - Now & Future

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Originally Posted by Ash86 View Post
Not a big revelation but hearing some commentary about how Nadal was the worst opponent for the rest of the big 4 made me think of their respective records against each other.

Nadal: Winning record against all 3 of the others.
Federer: Winning record against 1 (Novak). Losing record against 2.
Djokovic: Winning record against 1 (Murray). Losing record against 2.
Murray: Winning record against 1 (Federer). Losing record against 2.

Somehow I hadn't ever thought of the Federer-Djokovic-Murray triangle in that way... Fed over Novak; Novak over Murray; Murray over Fed. Obviously simplistic and not sign of any dominance necessarily (Novak, Murray haven't played that much relative to the others; Fed, Murray is very close etc.). But wondering what people think will be the trend at the end of their careers?

My prediction:

Nadal - Winning record against all. The closest threat is Djokovic - Nadal's 5 ahead right now at 19-14. To overhaul that Novak will have to meet him in more HC SFs and Fs. Not sure Nadal will be making as many towards the end of his career and will probably get some clay wins to overhaul it anyway. Too far ahead of Federer and Murray.
Federer - Losing record against all 3. Controversial perhaps but already he's behind Murray and Nadal. He's won against Novak recently but do think Novak will overhaul it eventually as they're most likely to meet on hard and Fed's level will go down more than Novak's will. Not a given though. At best I think it'll be a winning record against Nole only.
Djokovic - Winning record against Federer - losing against the other 2. See Murray overhauling him on HCs and him catching up on Fed.
Murray - Winning record against Novak and Fed. Losing record against Nadal.

Will be interesting to see the overall stats of the Top 4 against each other and their domination of the field too once it's all done. After all, what was the last tournament that at least 1 of them entered and it was won by someone outside the quartet?
Frankly, it wont really matter. It all comes down to total records. Who lost to who doesn't factor into history much.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:24 AM   #69
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Default Re: Big 4 Record Against Each Other - Now & Future

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Djokovic will end up having a winning record against Federer and Nadal. Hopefully Murray as well.
Won't matter that much even if it happens. Each fan base will claim their player wasn't the same. So for example if Nadal comes back and starts losing to the 3 other guys even on clay then clearly he's just a shadow of his former self and nobody should count those losses. I don't have a crystal ball but that's almost guaranteed. Hell you can probably predict among 2 or 3 MTFers who'll start that thread after the first big loss (in this scenario and not to say it will happen or that I hope it happens in any way).
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:39 AM   #70
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Default Re: Big 4 Record Against Each Other - Now & Future

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Won't matter that much even if it happens. Each fan base will claim their player wasn't the same. So for example if Nadal comes back and starts losing to the 3 other guys even on clay then clearly he's just a shadow of his former self and nobody should count those losses. I don't have a crystal ball but that's almost guaranteed. Hell you can probably predict among 2 or 3 MTFers who'll start that thread after the first big loss (in this scenario and not to say it will happen or that I hope it happens in any way).
Of course, but just for the sake of this thread.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:50 AM   #71
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Default Re: Big 4 Record Against Each Other - Now & Future

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Originally Posted by Thunder Hoad View Post
Won't matter that much even if it happens. Each fan base will claim their player wasn't the same. So for example if Nadal comes back and starts losing to the 3 other guys even on clay then clearly he's just a shadow of his former self and nobody should count those losses. I don't have a crystal ball but that's almost guaranteed. Hell you can probably predict among 2 or 3 MTFers who'll start that thread after the first big loss (in this scenario and not to say it will happen or that I hope it happens in any way).
That's why in the over all context. H2H's as much as folks like to carry on about it here ,really dont matter so much in the overall context of history. It's about how many you won not who you beat to do it usually.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:54 AM   #72
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That's why in the over all context. H2H's as much as folks like to carry on about it here ,really dont matter so much in the overall context of history. It's about how many you won not who you beat to do it usually.
I agree.

No one remembers who Laver beat (or lost to) in his slams/tournaments.
No one remembers who Borg beat (or lost to) in his slams/tournaments.
No one remembers who Sampras beat (or lost to) in his slams/tournaments.

But everyone remember the tournaments (slams) they won.
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People need to wake up. Olderer is not winning anymore slams - neither is he going to become #1.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:10 AM   #73
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Default Re: Big 4 Record Against Each Other - Now & Future

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I agree.

No one remembers who Laver beat (or lost to) in his slams/tournaments.
No one remembers who Borg beat (or lost to) in his slams/tournaments.
No one remembers who Sampras beat (or lost to) in his slams/tournaments.

But everyone remember the tournaments (slams) they won.
Pretty sure everyone remembers McEnroe beating Borg in consecutive slams to send him into retirement.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:10 AM   #74
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Default Re: Big 4 Record Against Each Other - Now & Future

I'm still wondering why Murray is in this discussion. There is no Big 4 as far as I'm concerned.

Edit: Oops, wrong thread.

Last edited by venky91 : 09-03-2012 at 07:19 AM.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:17 AM   #75
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Default Re: Big 4 Record Against Each Other - Now & Future

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Originally Posted by stewietennis View Post
Pretty sure everyone remembers McEnroe beating Borg in consecutive slams to send him into retirement.
I don't think the common public or even lay tennis fans remember that.
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People need to wake up. Olderer is not winning anymore slams - neither is he going to become #1.
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