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Old 08-28-2012, 12:20 PM   #181
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnotize View Post
"Pretty much all the top 10 supported Nadal". Well that sounds definitive.

Where is the evidence for this?
Because one blogger knew someone that knew someone that heard someone make an oblique reference to this? Haha, this forum can be hilarious sometimes.
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Originally Posted by duong View Post
Nadal was the one pushing for that but somebody was quoted by Tignor saying that all players taking part in WTF 2011 had agreed for that except Federer.

Anyway now it seems it has been abandoned

. I also fully expect to see you quoting Tignor as the source of truth in another argument but that won't surprise me.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:31 PM   #182
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

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Originally Posted by Looner View Post
. I also fully expect to see you quoting Tignor as the source of truth in another argument but that won't surprise me.
So I gave you a chance to produce evidence to back up your claim and you failed. Can't say I'm surprised.

Players have been vocal about a number of controversial issues recently. If any of them had supported a two year ranking systems there would be quotes to prove it. More importantly, if an actual vote had ever been taken on the issue and all but one of the top ten had supported it, the story would have been widely reported.

Don't let logic and common sense drag you down. Keep believing in gossip and rumours if it suits your purposes.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:32 PM   #183
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnotize View Post
"Pretty much all the top 10 supported Nadal". Well that sounds definitive.

Where is the evidence for this? Because one blogger knew someone that knew someone that heard someone make an oblique reference to this? Haha, this forum can be hilarious sometimes.
Do you have any other source as you say the opposite yourself ?

the source was a well-known tennis journalist, I don't remember who now and have no time for that.

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Originally Posted by Hypnotize View Post
Players have been vocal about a number of controversial issues recently. If any of them had supported a two year ranking systems there would be quotes to prove it.
as long as the proposal had little chance to be adopted, there was no reason to voice it too loudly. Other top-10s than Nadal have not been vocal on that topic.

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Originally Posted by Hypnotize View Post
More importantly, if an actual vote had ever been taken on the issue and all but one of the top ten had supported it, the story would have been widely reported.
there's no official structure of the top-10 who can vote
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:46 PM   #184
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

Tignor is a clown and the 2 year ranking system is not relevant to this thread. One, there is a separate thread and two since Federer is President he won't allow it. He has said that and has nothing to do with this thread.
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I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:57 PM   #185
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

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Originally Posted by BroTree123 View Post
Actually I encourage this boycott. At least finally there would be something interesting in the tennis world, should it happen.

Sure us Aussies are fucked with the depravity of tennis over here in a years time, but IMO I don't care. As long as there is controversy and big shit happening, it's all well and good to me.
No way, I´m 100% sure boycott will not happen. Remote possibility that lower ranked players boycott it, but there is NO WAY multimillionaires Federer, Djokovic or Murray would skip it just to help fellas like Hajek or Zemlja to earn more. Their own interest in not money any more, their interest is to win slams and they cant afford to lose one precious chance to win one big title more.

Even Wimby 1973 boycott didnt include all seeds- Nastase, Taylor, Kodes and Metreveli played it .

IMO , boycott was pretty stupid idea anyway.And useless . Did it make Stan Smith, Rosewall,Newcombe and others favs happier years later ? I dont think so. It sure made Kodes happy to be Wimbledon champion and Metreveli to be runner-up though.

I dont think Fed, Djoko or other top 10 would join the boycott. Tournament will be played anyway and they hate to see Simon or Monaco to win it

Plus, there may be issue with players sponsors.They want to see their star players on TV screen PLAYING with their raquets, wearing their shirts and wristwatches etc.They pay big bucks them, they want to get something back ...
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Old 08-28-2012, 02:05 PM   #186
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

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Originally Posted by cardio View Post

Even Wimby 1973 boycott didnt include all seeds- Nastase, Taylor, Kodes and Metreveli played it .

IMO , boycott was pretty stupid idea anyway.And useless . Did it make Stan Smith, Rosewall,Newcombe and others favs happier years later ? I dont think so. It sure made Kodes happy to be Wimbledon champion and Metreveli to be runner-up though..
Actually the boycott ended up resolving the problem afterwards, so it was successful. As for those who played it didn't matter since the defending champion didn't play with 81 players who were direct entry not playing impacts on the event. Well so Kodes won Wimbledon, but he knows it's not the same when not everyone was there.

Only 16 seeds at this time. Nastase, Kodes and Taylor only original seeds to play.
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On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 08-28-2012, 04:39 PM   #187
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

Isn't golf also helped because they have different tours? It's a lot easier in the USA to show golf on TV as its on in the middle of the afternoon, not early in the morning or middle of the night. How does the ATP pitch their sport to the TV networks especially when in many cases there are multiple tournaments happening it the same week, sometimes on different continents.
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:12 PM   #188
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

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Isn't golf also helped because they have different tours? It's a lot easier in the USA to show golf on TV as its on in the middle of the afternoon, not early in the morning or middle of the night. How does the ATP pitch their sport to the TV networks especially when in many cases there are multiple tournaments happening it the same week, sometimes on different continents.
Not at all. Yes, US has 3 majors but the PGA organises the rights for all of the events with the respective TV companies and the sponsors are on board with the PGA not the tour. Can see either European events or US dependent on what channel is showing what, but they've organised that with the PGA.

It's not hard if they actually work collectively as an organisation to look after its members but the ATP doesn't do it. They didn't even spend much on marketing the sport.
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On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:36 PM   #189
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Default The threat of top players action against the GSs still alive (from a reliable source)

So it was not just about empty talk. There is a definitive movement to get more in terms of percentage of revenue from Grand Slams. The article below is from the New York Times. I have bolded what I find interesting.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/sp...t-arena10.html

NEW YORK — There have been rain delays and lost sessions at this U.S. Open, pushed again into a Monday. There has been a tornado warning and a chair blown onto the court in the midst of the men’s semifinal between Andy Murray and Tomas Berdych.

But this Open still could end up looking like the calm before the storm.

The top men, led by Roger Federer, remain intent — genuinely intent — on applying major financial pressure on the Grand Slam tournaments next year, beginning with the Australian Open in January.


“I think you’re right,” said Craig Tiley, the Australian Open tournament director. “I think as a group, they’ve been led by Roger, who is very intelligent and measured in this. Anytime you can have a player council represented by arguably one of the great players of all time, you’re going to have some strength.”

Though few of the other major players — athletes or officials — are prepared to speak publicly about the particulars for fear of compromising the negotiations, it is clear that tension is rising fast, player expectations are high and Grand Slam administrators are increasingly anxious.

French Open officials, concerned that their message was not reaching the rank-and-file, recently sent an e-mail to French players seeking to dispel potential misconceptions: an approach that raised hackles among some tour officials.

The players are seeking much more than another routine pay raise. They want to capitalize on the narrow window provided by their golden age and current solidarity to correct what they perceive as a long-running historical inequity and bring the four Grand Slam events in closer line with their own tour events in terms of the percentage of prize money.

This is a high-stakes game of numbers and also of identity, with the players trying to emphasize the Grand Slam tournaments’ similarities with their own events while the Slams continue to emphasize their differences, which include grass-roots responsibilities, nonprofit status and even the commitment to funding and promoting smaller professional events.

“I really don’t think it is apples to apples,” Tiley said.

The players are prepared to argue, pointing out that some of their own events, including the Masters Series tournaments in Rome and Canada, are also run by national federations. Some players question why their efforts should help contribute to the funding of big player development programs in the four Grand Slam nations instead of on a more global level.


The players also maintain that more pay is a matter of principle. They are believed to be asking for between 12 percent and 13 percent of total revenue. With the Grand Slams now committed to equal prize money, that means — with the women along for the ride — the men are effectively demanding about 25 percent of total revenue.

That would be more in line with men’s tour events, which are believed to pay generally between 20 percent and 30 percent of revenue in prize money. But it would represent wrenching change for the Grand Slam tournaments. In the case of the U.S. Open, it would mean approximately a 250 percent hike in prize money in a single year from about $25 million to over $60 million.

In exchange, the players are offering, for now, little change of their own in return, and if they fail to reach their prize-money goal next year, they are considering a range of potential actions, according to tennis officials familiar with the possibilities.

Those include staging alternative events concurrent with the Grand Slam tournaments, stripping ranking points from the Grand Slam tournaments and skipping the Grand Slam tournaments altogether.

A formal boycott appears not to be an option because of antitrust laws, but the players are not part of a union and as independent contractors could choose to withhold their services. (It is unclear what the women’s players would do in this instance.)

This is not, of course, what either camp desires.

“I hope it doesn’t come down to that; I think that’s bad for everybody, really,” Murray said last week.

The last boycott of a Grand Slam was in 1973, when in an unsettled political period in the game, more than 70 leading players withdrew from Wimbledon in solidarity with Nikki Pilic, who had been barred for failing to play Davis Cup for Yugoslavia.

Nearly 40 years later, the emphasis remains on diplomacy, but the camps appear to be far apart for the moment.

Gordon Smith, chief executive of the U.S. Tennis Association, declined to comment on the negotiations, but a 250 percent pay raise for the players clearly would be a big hit for an organization whose declared revenues in 2010 (the most recent totals available publicly) were $243 million, with an estimated 80 percent to 85 percent of that coming from the U.S. Open.

A huge player pay raise could force staff and program cuts and also jeopardize the viability of the U.S.T.A’s recently announced plans for a $500 million upgrade of the U.S. Open site, just as it could impact the French Open’s plans — approved last year — to expand Roland Garros stadium in Paris.

The Australian Open, which has begun a major expansion of its own, is in a different position because its work in Melbourne will be financed by funded publicly. But, Tiley said, the Australian Open could simply not sustain a one-year prize money hike of the magnitude the players are requesting.

“I think it’s important for everyone to understand what the business model is,” Tiley said in a telephone interview. “For us to add that much money into compensation in one year is just not feasible from a business point of view. We would have to completely change the way we do business. It’s not something our shareholders would support or our board would be able to do.”

Tiley, who favors a wider debate about the sport’s future, said the only way to institute such change would be over a period of years. “We do agree that we should be increasing prize money,” he said. “We’ve never shied away from that, and it’s just a question of what we can afford and just how satisfactory that is to the player group.”

The deadline is approaching rapidly, however. The Australian Open is scheduled to announce its 2013 prize money totals in the first week of October, although Tiley said the tournament reserved the right to adjust the package at a later date.

Pete Sampras, the former world No. 1 from the United States who officially retired in 2003, said he supported the players’ push. “The Slams are making tons of money because of the players, and I think in fairness, the players should be compensated,” he said in a telephone interview. “I think the Slams have gotten away with it for way too long.”

The players have cracked in the past. In the early 2000s, under the former chief executive Mark Miles, the ATP deployed many of the same arguments in an attempt to extract a greater percentage of revenue. But the top players ultimately lacked the necessary cohesiveness to follow through.

“It’s tough to get 10 top players in the same room, let alone agree upon one thing,” Sampras said. “It’s not the N.B.A. It’s not a union. It’s individual guys. There were too many different opinions and to be quite honest with you, I didn’t have the energy to get involved.

“The fact that Roger wants to get involved is a great asset. If the top players stick together, they can do whatever they want in the sport.”

The true level of unity among the current player pool remains unclear, but there appears to be much more unity of purpose at the top. The leading four players — Federer, Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal and Murray — and the ATP Tour’s new chief executive, Brad Drewett, have met repeatedly with representatives of the Grand Slam tournaments this year. Nadal and Djokovic are no longer on the ATP Player Council, but Federer, ranked No. 1 at age 31, remains its president.

Rough estimates for the total revenue at the Grand Slam events next year are about $150 million for the Australian Open; $200 million for the French Open and Wimbledon; and $250 million for the U.S. Open, which would mean, according to those approximate figures, that the percentage of revenue devoted to prize money ranges from about 11 percent at the U.S. Open to about 17 percent at the Australian Open.

But there is deep resistance among some Grand Slam officials to the idea of linking prize money to percentage of revenue. Some argue that it should be linked to percentage of profit and maintain that approximately one third of the total prize money on the men’s tour comes from Grand Slam events, which occupy just eight weeks on the calendar.

“If you have a look at 1998 and the consumer price index increase on prize money per tournament,” Tiley said, “the Slams have gone up 1,095 percent, the ATP Tour has gone up 216 percent, and the challengers have gone down 15 percent. So there’s a big gap. The Slams have stepped up in their prize money and we believe they can step up more, and of course we will step up more, but the question is just by how much.”

The answer could make all the difference between a peaceful start to next season and a very stormy one.
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Barbados is in the same division as Spain. Unbelievable.
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:37 PM   #190
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Default Re: The threat of top players action against the GSs still alive (from a reliable sou

Was just going to bring that over. Thanks Looner. Fascinating article - really sounds like a boycott may be on the cards. Hewitt's moment to win the Australian Open! [Or maybe Rosol ]

Great to know Roger and the rest of the top 4 are making their case. Annoying that they haven't discussed anything with the women - the women will basically benefit with the outcome but have not involvement in negotiations and seem to have been shut out by the boys. Can see how increasing it by the amount they want may be tough but also think it's ridiculous that those 4 countries get so much money to plough into their own federations when all of the guys who have been winning slams aren't even from any of those countries. Spread the money more globally.
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:38 PM   #191
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Default Re: The threat of top players action against the GSs still alive (from a reliable sou

Good. They should boycott the AO.

Djokovic renews his status of champion in that case, right?
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:40 PM   #192
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

Thanks for this merge. I could not find the thread in my subscribed list.
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Barbados is in the same division as Spain. Unbelievable.
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:43 PM   #193
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Default Re: The threat of top players action against the GSs still alive (from a reliable sou

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Good. They should boycott the AO.

Djokovic renews his status of champion in that case, right?
Well depends if they still had the slam but the top guys just didn't go. Would simply devalue the event - that may happen if they put on the alternate event in the Middle East that has been mooted at the same time. So whoever wins that event may be seen as having a won more prestigious event (due to the field) than whoever wins the Open. Would be hilarious to see a slam where the top 20 didn't turn up.
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:44 PM   #194
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

They said boycott was not on the cards but selecting to play an alternative event was. So, in effect, it is. I wish they could boycott the FO. AO seem to be the closest to their demands with 17% of total revenue going to the players, men and women.
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lucky win with Mayer, easy draw, Simon choked, Dull with appendicitis, Nole to become father, closed roof from organizers, Del Potro injured, Hrbaty retired
plenty to pick from
On patriotism and the DC
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:48 PM   #195
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

AO actually has the best organisation and best percentage of player payments. The players are the ones who bring in the revenue and deserve more of the pie, but that has to filter down to all levels.
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On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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