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Old 08-28-2012, 10:15 AM   #166
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

pure quality as expected from NYCtennisfan...
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:17 AM   #167
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

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Originally Posted by NYCtennisfan View Post
The amount of prize money in golf boomed in the late '90s. Part of it was the "Tiger effect," but the general rise in prize money was already on the upswing before his ascendancy.
Thanks for the post as always

I know very very little about golf, but from my knowledge, it's still a sport associated with rich people, at least in Europe and Asia, I don't know in the USA.

And what I want to say here is that the general economic trend in last 20 years has been very favourable to luxury goods, that may explain the development of the payment of professional golf players, not even speaking of marketing campaigns, etc.
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:25 AM   #168
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

Also, I noticed recently that there are about 4-5 golf magazines in my local store but only 1 tennis magazine... at least in Europe I think Golf is definitly more for rich people than tennis (probably because there is litte space for golf courses in Europe as compared to the US hence it is more expensive to play on them), but as it has been pointed out the price money structure in tennis needs to be fixed asap...
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:26 AM   #169
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

I wonder if the lower prize money in tennis can be explained somewhat with a bias towards a clear-cut loser. In golf you don't get that. In tennis someone always loses, so it's somewhat harder to award more prize money to people that just lose in R1. In golf everyone is ranked, so to me it seems easier to "reward". Obviously, this is just speculation from my side but I do think such a bias may exist.
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Say what you want about Federer playing Baghdatis and Gonzo in AO finals... But at least he won them
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:33 AM   #170
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

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I wonder if the lower prize money in tennis can be explained somewhat with a bias towards a clear-cut loser. In golf you don't get that. In tennis someone always loses, so it's somewhat harder to award more prize money to people that just lose in R1. In golf everyone is ranked, so to me it seems easier to "reward". Obviously, this is just speculation from my side but I do think such a bias may exist.
You don't make the cut in a golf tournament you lose. Can't maintain a certain standard then a player has to go back to Tour school to get back on the tour. So not everyone is ranked. Next of all playing both the course and opponents to win an event. There is only 1 winner in a golf event.

Actually it's not that hard at all, the distribution is poor at most levels especially at the lower levels and NY summed it up perfectly.
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I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:38 AM   #171
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

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I brought up Nadal and Djokovic because they were on the council before and supported a number of stupid "innovations" such as the 2-year ranking and the marginalising the indoor season this year and the next.

Federer has always said he wants the best for the sport. It seems there is a will there to be a bit less self-serving than the whining duo and he's willing to listen. Obviously, I can't make a statement on his position, as he hasn't been asked on the issue but surely if people raise the issue with him, he'll try to do something.
Djokovic has never said anything about a 2 year ranking system so I don't know where you got that from. Nadal is the only player on record supporting that nonsense. Novak also hasn't said he wants to marginalise the indoor season. Like many players, he is keen to reduce the length of the season and the indoor tournaments in the autumn will be the most likely victims of this should it ever happen.
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:39 AM   #172
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

You are obviously correct but an in-form player in tennis can just as easily lose R1 as he can reach the SF depending on the draw. We all know about match-ups by now and sometimes you're unlucky (such as Haas at Wimbledon). In golf, the way tournaments operate gives the best players over the first two days a chance to prove their worth against the whole field which may be why they get rewarded more for their losing effort. In tennis, you lose one match and you're out.


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Djokovic has never said anything about a 2 year ranking system so I don't know where you got that from. Nadal is the only player on record supporting that nonsense. Novak also hasn't said he wants to marginalise the indoor season. Like many players, he is keen to reduce the length of the season and the indoor tournaments in the autumn will be the most likely victims of this should it ever happen.
Pretty much all the top 10 supported Nadal in the push for a 2-year ranking, so you're wrong. There was a thread for it where Federer pushed back against this nonsense. Djokovic obviously was not a vocal proponent but then again he was not on the council at the time .
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:40 AM   #173
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

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Originally Posted by Looner View Post
I wonder if the lower prize money in tennis can be explained somewhat with a bias towards a clear-cut loser. In golf you don't get that. In tennis someone always loses, so it's somewhat harder to award more prize money to people that just lose in R1. In golf everyone is ranked, so to me it seems easier to "reward". Obviously, this is just speculation from my side but I do think such a bias may exist.
This is not entirely correct. Prize money in golf goes only to those that make "The cut". Normally this will be about half the contestants. About the same proportion to tennis players with at least one win in the MD, then.

The main reason a #100 golfer earns more than a #100 tennis player is the larger unpredictability of golf. There is noone winning with consistency. #1 is nowhere close to the results of a tennis #1 (McIlroy has three wins in the last year compared to Federer's nine) and when the best players take far fewer of the good results, there is more for the lower ranked to share.
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:41 AM   #174
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

Actually I encourage this boycott. At least finally there would be something interesting in the tennis world, should it happen.

Sure us Aussies are fucked with the depravity of tennis over here in a years time, but IMO I don't care. As long as there is controversy and big shit happening, it's all well and good to me.
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:48 AM   #175
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

There's already been a lot of sense made by the likes of scoobs, Action Jackson, Smoke944 etc. so I won't quote all the excellent points already made or the post will be ridiculously long. What I would like to point out for the few detractors (with a couple of valid points) is this: I highly doubt that anyone else who feels, like I do, that lower ranked tour pros deserve a bigger cut of the financial pie feel that this should necessarily come at the expense of the big 3/4 at the top. The most talented and popular players always will and should command the lion's share of any proceeds.

No one is suggesting (from what I've seen thus far) that those in the 100-250 range are entitled to private jets, fancy hotels, big mansions or flashy sportscars. Is it so unreasonable, however, to think they should be able to earn enough to afford budget travel/modest accommodation while on tour and still have a little left after expenses to support themselves and their families? Is the status quo in tennis truly a fair and inevitable situation given that athletes with similar rankings in comparable sports like golf - as NYCtennisfan demonstrates - do not endure similar financial struggles to make ends meet? Is there really not enough revenue for more equitable distribution further down the ranks?

To echo prior comments, serious attention needs to be paid to how the grassroots levels are funded and supported to help identify and nurture promising talent. I don't know much about how the various tennis federations are structured and revenue allocated but that seems to be another major area of concern. Because as keen as I am in following the elite players (obviously some more than others) and as much as they now contribute to tennis' popularity, even they had to start their climb to the top from somewhere - namely the bottom - rather than simply parachute their way there.
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:49 AM   #176
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

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Djokovic has never said anything about a 2 year ranking system so I don't know where you got that from. Nadal is the only player on record supporting that nonsense.
Nadal was the one pushing for that but somebody was quoted by Tignor saying that all players taking part in WTF 2011 had agreed for that except Federer.

Anyway now it seems it has been abandoned

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Novak also hasn't said he wants to marginalise the indoor season. Like many players, he is keen to reduce the length of the season and the indoor tournaments in the autumn will be the most likely victims of this should it ever happen.
nobody said that they want to marginalise the indoor season, but their plans to reduce the length of the season lead to that
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:52 AM   #177
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The main reason a #100 golfer earns more than a #100 tennis player is the larger unpredictability of golf.
yes, that's probably an important reason, together with the fact that golf has been able to develop its "luxury good" economy.

Anyway golf brings a lot of money, that's far from being the case for many individual sports.
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:12 AM   #178
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

Of course no one is expecting the guys from 80 downwards have private jets, hotel floors all to themselves, hookers on call if they won't. The higher up the players are, the more they make from endorsements than prizemoney. At the same time due to their abilities they get more freebies and deserve the rewards, anyone with a functioning brain cell gets that.
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I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:43 AM   #179
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Tennis is a very interesting parallel to what's been going on in the "real" economy in the last 30 years or so, which wealth for those at the top of the sport rising dramatically while those lower down the food chain find their earnings are stagnant, if not actually declining in real terms. And it's not like this has led to a healthy global economy. I doubt it's doing much good for the long term health of tennis either.
Exactly.
I wonder sometimes don't those bosses who only increase the managemen't salary and not of those in lower positions understand that it's not gonna be sustainable much longer.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:04 PM   #180
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Default Re: Players threaten to boycott the AO!

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Pretty much all the top 10 supported Nadal in the push for a 2-year ranking, so you're wrong. There was a thread for it where Federer pushed back against this nonsense. Djokovic obviously was not a vocal proponent but then again he was not on the council at the time .
"Pretty much all the top 10 supported Nadal". Well that sounds definitive.

Where is the evidence for this? Because one blogger knew someone that knew someone that heard someone make an oblique reference to this? Haha, this forum can be hilarious sometimes.
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