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Old 08-23-2012, 02:22 PM   #46
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Default Re: US Open-court speed

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Originally Posted by Johnny Groove View Post
Clearly the courts have been slowed down, but the extent of it is subject to one's own personal bias.

I say, who gives a fuck? As a player, you play on the surface, you feel how the ball reacts to it, adjust accordingly, and that's it.
We need to know the accurate changes in speeds to estimate if and how big an asterisk is necessary.

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Old 08-23-2012, 02:37 PM   #47
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Default Re: US Open-court speed

The USO used to be one of the few remaining fast surfaces out there. What they are doing to it now is beyond reprehensible. Players in the qualies are complaining of a dramatic slow down of the courts. Clay court specialists' delight. There are going to be a few surprises this year it seems.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:45 PM   #48
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Default Re: US Open-court speed

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Originally Posted by Sophocles View Post
But don't you think players should be required to adjust to a variety of different surfaces? Wouldn't that be a fairer reflection of their overall ability?
In a perfect world, I'd love to see varied surfaces, lower bounce and faster Wimbledon, USO sped up, bring back carpet indoors in the fall.

But as a player, you just gotta adjust to what is going on

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Originally Posted by IOFH View Post
We need to know the accurate changes in speeds to estimate if and how big an asterisk is necessary.

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Old 08-23-2012, 02:47 PM   #49
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Default Re: US Open-court speed

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Originally Posted by Allez View Post
The USO used to be one of the few remaining fast surfaces out there. What they are doing to it now is beyond reprehensible. Players in the qualies are complaining of a dramatic slow down of the courts. Clay court specialists' delight. There are going to be a few surprises this year it seems.
Stop whining or the Professor will be on your case soon. That is if you're lucky and Tio ignores your lack of fairplay.
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Davis Cup should never have really mattered in the GOAT discussion anyway since it's a team event. If you're talking about the GOAT singles player then you should mainly look at individual results.
If some unknown talent came out of some random tiny country (no chance to win DC) and won 20 slams, no one would give a single shit if that player didn't have DC. The fact is, success in DC is largely determined by what country you come from or play for in the first place, which most players haven't had any control over.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:00 PM   #50
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Default Re: US Open-court speed

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Originally Posted by Johnny Groove View Post
Clearly the courts have been slowed down, but the extent of it is subject to one's own personal bias.

I say, who gives a fuck? As a player, you play on the surface, you feel how the ball reacts to it, adjust accordingly, and that's it.
Because the slowed down surfaces cater to only particular playing styles. It makes you wonder why players bother learning a finesse game through the youth ranks as it's not going to give them a cat in hell's chance of winning a slam, no matter how good that game is.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:01 PM   #51
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Default Re: US Open-court speed

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Because the slowed down surfaces cater to only particular playing styles. It makes you wonder why players bother learning a finesse game through the youth ranks as it's not going to give them a cat in hell's chance of winning a slam, no matter how good that game is.
Not with that mindset.

Remind me who is #1 again?
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:02 PM   #52
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Default Re: US Open-court speed

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Originally Posted by Johnny Groove View Post
In a perfect world, I'd love to see varied surfaces, lower bounce and faster Wimbledon, USO sped up, bring back carpet indoors in the fall.

But as a player, you just gotta adjust to what is going on
Of course you do, but there are limits to how much anybody can adapt. Isn't it a shame we now have a tour on which Richard Gonzales would barely have been competitive? Admittedly Nadal wouldn't have done much on most of the courts Pancho played on either, but at least they still had clay.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:06 PM   #53
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Default Re: US Open-court speed

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Originally Posted by Sophocles View Post
Of course you do, but there are limits to how much anybody can adapt. Isn't it a shame we now have a tour on which Richard Gonzales would barely have been competitive? Admittedly Nadal wouldn't have done much on most of the courts Pancho played on either, but at least they still had clay.
The only limits in life are the ones in your own mind.

Who'd have thought in 2005 that Nadal would win the USO regularly hitting 130+ mph serves?

And Pancho would still be top 10 minimum these days, with that serve and his movement and mental strength. I mean shit, if Isner can make top 10, so can Pancho.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:06 PM   #54
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Default Re: US Open-court speed

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Not with that mindset.

Remind me who is #1 again?
Groove, you need to get that militaristic thinking out of your system if you want to begin to understand that some people may hate your clay warrior and his style.

The fact Federer has started playing in a similar way does not reinforce your point. It actually hurts it, as one of the most graceful and enjoyable tennis players to ever play the game has had to scale back on his brilliance just to play on clay courts all year round.
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Davis Cup should never have really mattered in the GOAT discussion anyway since it's a team event. If you're talking about the GOAT singles player then you should mainly look at individual results.
If some unknown talent came out of some random tiny country (no chance to win DC) and won 20 slams, no one would give a single shit if that player didn't have DC. The fact is, success in DC is largely determined by what country you come from or play for in the first place, which most players haven't had any control over.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:08 PM   #55
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Default Re: US Open-court speed

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Groove, you need to get that militaristic thinking out of your system if you want to begin to understand that some people may hate your clay warrior and his style.
Eh?

Has nothing to do with Nadal. rocketassist pointed out that a finesse game will get you nowhere in tennis these days and I simply pointed out that Federer is currently #1, and he has all kinds of variety in his game.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:11 PM   #56
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Default Re: US Open-court speed

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Eh?

Has nothing to do with Nadal. rocketassist pointed out that a finesse game will get you nowhere in tennis these days and I simply pointed out that Federer is currently #1, and he has all kinds of variety in his game.
He crucially has fitness, conditioning, defensive ability and a world class serve especially.

Without the serve in recent years he'd have struggled to stay up there IMO. It's kept him alive on courts where his baseline game can't overpower guys as much as he used to.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:13 PM   #57
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Default Re: US Open-court speed

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He crucially has fitness, conditioning, defensive ability and a world class serve especially.
Surely a number 1 should need to have all those things. If the current surfaces lead to a number 1 with those qualities then that's not a bad thing.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:15 PM   #58
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Default Re: US Open-court speed

It doesnt make any sense why they would slow down USO. Isner and Fish wont have any chance to make a deep run if its blue clay like Australia
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:17 PM   #59
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Default Re: US Open-court speed

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Surely a number 1 should need to have all those things. If the current surfaces lead to a number 1 with those qualities then that's not a bad thing.
It's not the current conditions that led to his having this game. It's the surfaces of the early 00s and end of the 90s.
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Davis Cup should never have really mattered in the GOAT discussion anyway since it's a team event. If you're talking about the GOAT singles player then you should mainly look at individual results.
If some unknown talent came out of some random tiny country (no chance to win DC) and won 20 slams, no one would give a single shit if that player didn't have DC. The fact is, success in DC is largely determined by what country you come from or play for in the first place, which most players haven't had any control over.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:18 PM   #60
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Default Re: US Open-court speed

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Surely a number 1 should need to have all those things. If the current surfaces lead to a number 1 with those qualities then that's not a bad thing.
Without the serve he wouldn't be up there cause his ground game and these surfaces do not go together enough.

He has done remarkably well given he grew up and emerged at the top in more diverse conditions, to remain at the top of the game. The serve and physical condition being the important factors.
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