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Old 08-24-2012, 07:43 PM   #121
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

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Originally Posted by Tommy_Vercetti View Post
Yes. After he was caught doping he tried to throw dirt on others. But that has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

And I'd like an answer to the question. If Armstrong's test results are not valid, than explain why the test results of any other competitor should be?
It's not just testing. It's possible to use a load of PEDs in the off-season and the traces will have gone by the beginning of the competitions. However the performance enhancing remains.

More out of competition testing would help prevent this sort of stuff.
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Old 08-24-2012, 07:45 PM   #122
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

The titles should be left vacant. It would be even more of a mockery of the doping association to catch one then award the title to another in an already heavily doped peloton.
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:06 PM   #123
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

Always a great day when the biggest cheater in sports history is caught and deprived of his undeserved titles. Good bloody riddance.

The one I feel most sorry for in all this is Ullrich, who should have rightfully been a 4/5 time Tour de France winner. It is still pretty satisfying that he will soon lead 1-0 against Armstrong in Tour wins.
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:07 PM   #124
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

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Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
That was what I thought.

Do you have any sources Echoes?
In 1999/2000 the Gazzetta said Escartin was mentioned on a list of Ferrari clients (Ferrari's diary) whose hematocrit was superior to 50%, along with Jalabert, Tonkov, Gotti and Olano (nothing but that!)

The Prosecutor of the Bologna court gave the list to the CONI. I honestly don't know how it ended but his name is definitely on the list.


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Lemond was probably the last clean rider and he described very well the turn in the early 90s when from one year to the next, he couldn't follow anymore some riders (and not one, more like 20) in the mountain despite showing no real decline in his performances (in training, etc...).
The last clean? Along with Edwig Van Hooydonck, Gilles Delion, Frans Maassen, Charly Mottet, Christophe Bassons. And many riders are most certainly still racing clean today, even if it's impossible to name them. They might finish dead last at any race, they still are cycling riders, right?

Many people described the turn in question before LeMond. Delion and Van Hooydonck already did when active and nobody wished to listen to them. LeMond came very late in the antidoping matter. Of course, I agree that EPO changed everything (along with testosteron, HGH and blood doping).

Also LeMond was ill in his last years as a pro. Consequences of the shooting accident.


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But no it's quite sure that cyclists were not "equal in their doping", Armstrong taught a lot to his teammates which means that they didn't know about it as well . No equality is possible in that field : there will always be some who are more advanced than others, like in mechanic competitions.
That is most probably right but uninteresting in my opinion. If the opponents were less doped than the winner, it still remains that they were doped. So no mercy for them either. They've committed the essential crime that contains all the others in itself (if I may paraphrase a famous author)

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Old 08-24-2012, 08:35 PM   #125
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

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Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
In 1999/2000 the Gazzetta said Escartin was mentioned on a list of Ferrari clients (Ferrari's diary) whose hematocrit was superior to 50%, along with Jalabert, Tonkov, Gotti and Olano (nothing but that!)

The Prosecutor of the Bologna court gave the list to the CONI. I honestly don't know how it ended but his name is definitely on the list.
We never heard anything else about the matter after that Gazzetta article. The CONI did nothing.

So that's what counts for you as being "busted"?

Gotta love your standards of evidence.

Now do I think Escartin was clean? Not for a moment. But he was hardly "busted".
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:35 PM   #126
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...sm_btn_twitter

I think this is a very good article on the subject and sums up pretty well what I feel, though I'm more sceptical of his innocence than she seems to be. The point that the process is now very tainted is a good one.
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:53 PM   #127
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

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Originally Posted by Fujee View Post
The titles should be left vacant. It would be even more of a mockery of the doping association to catch one then award the title to another in an already heavily doped peloton.
if we're going by that presumption, we might as well get rid of the tour de france for good now
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:57 PM   #128
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

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Originally Posted by scoobs View Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...sm_btn_twitter

I think this is a very good article on the subject and sums up pretty well what I feel, though I'm more sceptical of his innocence than she seems to be. The point that the process is now very tainted is a good one.
I'm as big of a cycling fan as I am a tennis fan, and I'm used to reading facepalm-inducing articles about cycling in the general press, but this one is probably the worst of them all. The blatant misunderstandings of cycling and the doping procedures are al over the place... I was tempted to stop reading after this gem:

Quote:
Armstrong never failed a drug test. He was tested in competition, out of competition. He was tested at the Olympics, at the Tour de France, at dozens if not hundreds of other events. And he never failed a test. We know this because if he had, Travis T. Tygart, the head of USADA, would have personally delivered the results to every home in America, like a grim little Santa Claus.
Tygart only became the head of USADA in the fall of 2004. He missed almost the entirety of Armstrong's tyrannic domination of the TdF, so he could hardly have done anything of what the author suggests.

The author has bought into the common misconception that the only thing USADA had was witnesses. That is not true. They had much more than that.

Including, yes, irregular blood levels from 2009-2010. And let's not forget the test Armstrong DID fail in 2003. But wait, that was also part of the conspiracy...

Armstrong has fallen because he is guilty. Thinking otherwise is either not being properly informed or being deluded.
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:57 PM   #129
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

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Originally Posted by scoobs View Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...sm_btn_twitter

I think this is a very good article on the subject and sums up pretty well what I feel, though I'm more sceptical of his innocence than she seems to be. The point that the process is now very tainted is a good one.
The writer seems to have a hard time letting go of Armstrong´s icon status, the idea that someone who beat cancer and came back to win the Tour seven times may have done it using illegal substances seems to be too tough to comprehend.

It is a tragedy, because with Armstrong, we´re not talking just about another cycling pro getting busted. His history with cancer has made him something much more, almost a superhuman who has given so much hope to others. He has been the THE fighter, someone who never gives up and comes out as a winner. The idea that all this was done illegally is just too much for many people to handle. It´s like a child finding out there is no Santa Claus.

He´s done so much for charity and cancer research, it´s a shame if this will hurt that. But if he is guilty of using PED´s he should be punished accordingly, there is no other way. What´s true and what´s not is anybody´s guess. But if Armstrong wouldn´t have backed down now, we would know pretty soon what the evidence against him is. Personally I can´t help but feeling that taking this "I´m done, this is enough for me"-stance speaks volumes. If he really is clean and has never taken PED´s in his life, he would fight for his reputation. Are we really supposed to believe that someone who almost died of cancer, had his testicle removed, beat the disease, won the Tour 7 times would quit now if he was innocent?? I maybe wrong, but I don´t think so.
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Old 08-24-2012, 11:04 PM   #130
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

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Are we really supposed to believe that someone who almost died of cancer, had his testicle removed, beat the disease, won the Tour 7 times would quit now if he was innocent?? I maybe wrong, but I don´t think so.
Plus removal of cancer from his brain. I actually think it would be reasonable to quit.
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Old 08-24-2012, 11:23 PM   #131
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Default Re: Why doesn't Usain Bolt get the Lance Armstrong treatment from the public?

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Legstrong
It´s not funny because my grandmother had that surname when she was young and innocent. That reminds me about two walking sticks my cousin had when I was young. Eeh, I have just forgot my point here
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Old 08-25-2012, 12:46 AM   #132
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

Don't care.

He is still a hero. In my eyes, he's done more good than bad in his life.
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Old 08-25-2012, 02:48 AM   #133
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

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I think his 4-year (2nd offence) ban was decided upon before they changed the rules. He was in fact caught 3 times but the second time he was let off. Gatlin does seem to be out of place in an officially clean sport such as the sprints right now.
No, helped with them so he didn't get a lifeban as he should have.

Head of WADA John Fahey. Lance Armstrong's decision not to contest doping charges against him is an admission the allegations "have substance to them".

"I am confident and WADA is confident that the USADA acted within the WADA code, and that a court in Texas also decided not to interfere," Fahey said. "They now have the right to apply a penalty that will be recognised by all WADA code countries around the world."

"He had a right to contest the charges. He chose not to," Fahey said. "The simple fact is that his refusal to examine the evidence means the charges had substance in them. Under the rules, penalties can now be imposed."
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Old 08-25-2012, 03:05 AM   #134
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

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Always a great day when the biggest cheater in sports history is caught and deprived of his undeserved titles. Good bloody riddance.

The one I feel most sorry for in all this is Ullrich, who should have rightfully been a 4/5 time Tour de France winner. It is still pretty satisfying that he will soon lead 1-0 against Armstrong in Tour wins.
I'm not sure if you are being serious
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Old 08-25-2012, 03:12 AM   #135
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Default Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

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Don't care.

He is still a hero. In my eyes, he's done more good than bad in his life.
He may have done more good than bad in his life but it was all built on a giant lie. The guy is a fraud.
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