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Old 08-16-2012, 01:27 PM   #16
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Default Re: Why doesn't Usain Bolt get the Lance Armstrong treatment from the public?

Armstrong was destroying proven dopers in his time so that also makes people question.
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: Why doesn't Usain Bolt get the Lance Armstrong treatment from the public?

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The Americans when their ladies broke the 4x100m record that stood from the GDR cheats in the 80s. No questions about drugs this time.
I did ask the question.

http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...=#post12312612

But yes, it's surprising this hasn't sparked more debate.
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:14 PM   #18
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Default Re: Why doesn't Usain Bolt get the Lance Armstrong treatment from the public?

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
I did ask the question.

http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...=#post12312612

But yes, it's surprising this hasn't sparked more debate.
White Anglosaxons supposedly don't dope.
Only Eastern Europeans, Spaniards and Chinese do. Prevailing opinion in the Anglosaxon world.


Having said that, I'm pretty sure the Jamaican track team dopes. It isn't just their performances and domination of the sprint, it's mostly the sudden jumps in performance. Blake going from 19.7 to 19.26 in the 200m? Seriously? Warren Weir going from 20.2 to 19.84 and Olympic bronze in a season?? Furthermore, Jamaica doesn't have any out of competition controls, meaning the athletes can easily dope to put up some superhuman training effort in the months prior to the big events.
Bolt, I feel held himself back a bit in the 200 meters. It looks like he had plenty in reserve and just did what was needed to win. It was still the third fastest time ever.
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:15 PM   #19
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Default Re: Why doesn't Usain Bolt get the Lance Armstrong treatment from the public?

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He is more likable than Armstrong. In interviews, with sponsors, etc.

Plus sprinting really fast for 10 seconds, it looks more, "human" or possible to do for normal people, at least compared to biking for days on end.
I was about to say... but THIS. Also, corrected for accuracy .
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:54 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why doesn't Usain Bolt get the Lance Armstrong treatment from the public?

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White Anglosaxons supposedly don't dope.
Only Eastern Europeans, Spaniards and Chinese do. Prevailing opinion in the Anglosaxon world.


Having said that, I'm pretty sure the Jamaican track team dopes. It isn't just their performances and domination of the sprint, it's mostly the sudden jumps in performance. Blake going from 19.7 to 19.26 in the 200m? Seriously? Warren Weir going from 20.2 to 19.84 and Olympic bronze in a season?? Furthermore, Jamaica doesn't have any out of competition controls, meaning the athletes can easily dope to put up some superhuman training effort in the months prior to the big events.
Bolt, I feel held himself back a bit in the 200 meters. It looks like he had plenty in reserve and just did what was needed to win. It was still the third fastest time ever.
What I find most striking and what has made me really raise my eyebrows at the sprinting performances of (not only) Jamaican runners in these past years is the dramatic rise in the speed at which WRs are broken.

Since times were first measured electronically to hundredths of a second, in 1964, and until Donovan Bailey's WR in 1996 the WR was bettered by a total of .22 seconds. From 1996 until Bolt's current WR, it has been bettered by a total of .26 seconds.

.22 seconds in 32 years, .26 in 13 years.

As for the Jamaican phenomenon, since Asafa Powell became the first Jamaican man to break the men's 100m WR in 2005 (9.77), that time has been beaten by .19 seconds in a time period of just four years. In fact, it has been bettered by several Jamaican runners: Powell, Bolt and Blake.
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:19 PM   #21
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Default Re: Why doesn't Usain Bolt get the Lance Armstrong treatment from the public?

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
What I find most striking and what has made me really raise my eyebrows at the sprinting performances of (not only) Jamaican runners in these past years is the dramatic rise in the speed at which WRs are broken.

Since times were first measured electronically to hundredths of a second, in 1964, and until Donovan Bailey's WR in 1996 the WR was bettered by a total of .22 seconds. From 1996 until Bolt's current WR, it has been bettered by a total of .26 seconds.

.22 seconds in 32 years, .26 in 13 years.

As for the Jamaican phenomenon, since Asafa Powell became the first Jamaican man to break the men's 100m WR in 2005 (9.77), that time has been beaten by .19 seconds in a time period of just four years. In fact, it has been bettered by several Jamaican runners: Powell, Bolt and Blake.
And that's a fair point.
With Bolt I'd be willing to believe he is a once in a generation athlete (well, he is even if he turns out not to be clean), however the small base of Jamaica producing several sub 10.00 sprinters who have all made dramatically fast progress is suspect. Especially given their lack of domestic controls (a problem in many countries).

It's not fun to have to question every champion, but after two decades of watching sports and having seen legions of doping cases, one can't help becoming cycnical (or maybe I should call it seeing the writings on the wall).

Concerning Armstrong, it's about time he gets exposed for the fraud he is. And not just for doping, but also for the livestrong scams. Do you guys know there are two livestrongs? Livestrong.org donates part of its income to good causes (but also pays for Armstrong insatiable lawyers and private jets), but there's also livestrong.com. Money generated by the latter goes straight into Armstrongs pockets.

Armstrong is a scumbag of the highest order, benefiting personally from people who in good faith donate to the wrong livestrong, treating cycling fans as idiots, using cancer patients as a pr shield and stopping at (almost) nothing to destroy anyone who dares to question his myth.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:06 PM   #22
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Default Re: Why doesn't Usain Bolt get the Lance Armstrong treatment from the public?

What's that thread? And the OP is supposedly a reformed poster? Has Usain Bolt ever tested positive for blood dope? I don't think so. So comparing him to a proven doper is doping allegation. I thought it was against the rules of this forum? Is it OK to suspect a sprinter while it's not OK to suspect a tennis player? Double standard again?

I find it amazing that Pharmstrong still makes debate 7 years after being busted. It's high time we turned the page. There are many more things to say about cycling and many more cheaters to be busted. He does not deserve so much honour and fame. All he deserves is despise and forgetting.

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On topic, as someone already mentioned, he's ridiculously talented/gifted, that's not something you can inject.
This post is amazing. It implies that a talented athlete can dope. We'd turn a blind eye on it. There's no hierarchy in doping. Valverde might've been very talented as a youngster, that is no excuse for doping. Quite on the contrary it's even an aggravating circumstance. I, of course, won't justify a nobody doping but it at least can be explained. He gambled and lost.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Groove
[1]He is more likable than Armstrong. In interviews, with sponsors, etc.

[2]Plus sprinting really fast for 10 seconds, it looks more, "human" or possible to do for normal people, at least compared to biking for hours on end.
1: So what? A likable athlete can perfectly prove to be a doper. That's not incompatible.

2: You don't dope because of the hardness of the sport. You dope to enhance your performance, whatever the sport.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:15 PM   #23
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Default Re: Why doesn't Usain Bolt get the Lance Armstrong treatment from the public?

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Originally Posted by Purple Rainbow View Post
White Anglosaxons supposedly don't dope.
Only Eastern Europeans, Spaniards and Chinese do. Prevailing opinion in the Anglosaxon world.


Having said that, I'm pretty sure the Jamaican track team dopes. It isn't just their performances and domination of the sprint, it's mostly the sudden jumps in performance. Blake going from 19.7 to 19.26 in the 200m? Seriously? Warren Weir going from 20.2 to 19.84 and Olympic bronze in a season?? Furthermore, Jamaica doesn't have any out of competition controls, meaning the athletes can easily dope to put up some superhuman training effort in the months prior to the big events.
Bolt, I feel held himself back a bit in the 200 meters. It looks like he had plenty in reserve and just did what was needed to win. It was still the third fastest time ever.
Jamaica actually do have out of competition testing. Which one is it. There are none at all or there are a lack of it?. You know most of the Jamaicans went to the US before Asafa Powell decided to stay home, so they can work with Jamaican coaches.

Do you need me to explain the Yohan Blake thing again? In case you don't get it the JAA banned him for something that wasn't on WADA's list.

Bolt won the world juniors when he was 15 yes racing 19 year olds. Bolt, Blake and Weir are all trained by the same man. So Glen Mills must be the doping king then. Not like there haven't been Jamaicans caught for failing doping controls. You have implied they are all on it.
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Old 08-17-2012, 07:37 AM   #24
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Default Re: Why doesn't Usain Bolt get the Lance Armstrong treatment from the public?

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This post is amazing. It implies that a talented athlete can dope. We'd turn a blind eye on it. There's no hierarchy in doping. Valverde might've been very talented as a youngster, that is no excuse for doping. Quite on the contrary it's even an aggravating circumstance. I, of course, won't justify a nobody doping but it at least can be explained. He gambled and lost.
Wtf are you on? I meant to say that I could be doped until I explode, but I'll still never going to run 9.5x or anywhere near, i.e. if doping is the reason he's that fast, then anyone could it, and I don't think so.
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Old 08-17-2012, 07:03 PM   #25
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Default Re: Why doesn't Usain Bolt get the Lance Armstrong treatment from the public?

I perfectly understood your point. As a matter of fact I heard it many times before and I always replied the same way.

Yes, a doper might also have raw talent (and be training hard), which might also be an element that explains his exceptional performances. But my point remains: why would this make the doper in question more respectable? Why would he be more respectable than a mug who suddenly becomes a star because of dope?

I think both cases are equally disgusting. I'm even inclined to say that the "talented" doper is even less respectable because at least, if he has talent, he'd still be able to compete in smaller events, and still earn a living. He's got no excuse.

No mercy for cheaters.
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Old 08-17-2012, 07:45 PM   #26
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Default Re: Why doesn't Usain Bolt get the Lance Armstrong treatment from the public?

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Yes, a doper might also have raw talent (and be training hard), which might also be an element that explains his exceptional performances. But my point remains: why would this make the doper in question more respectable? Why would he be more respectable than a mug who suddenly becomes a star because of dope?

I think both cases are equally disgusting. I'm even inclined to say that the "talented" doper is even less respectable because at least, if he has talent, he'd still be able to compete in smaller events, and still earn a living. He's got no excuse.

No mercy for cheaters.
Can't help but make analogies between Gasquet and Canas here.
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:58 PM   #27
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Default Re: Why doesn't Usain Bolt get the Lance Armstrong treatment from the public?

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Can't help but make analogies between Gasquet and Canas here.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:38 PM   #28
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Default Re: Why doesn't Usain Bolt get the Lance Armstrong treatment from the public?

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I perfectly understood your point. As a matter of fact I heard it many times before and I always replied the same way.

Yes, a doper might also have raw talent (and be training hard), which might also be an element that explains his exceptional performances. But my point remains: why would this make the doper in question more respectable? Why would he be more respectable than a mug who suddenly becomes a star because of dope?

I think both cases are equally disgusting. I'm even inclined to say that the "talented" doper is even less respectable because at least, if he has talent, he'd still be able to compete in smaller events, and still earn a living. He's got no excuse.

No mercy for cheaters.
The point and the fact is, he's not proven as cheater/doper, therefore people can't draw runs fast = dope analogies.
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Old 08-19-2012, 07:27 AM   #29
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Default Re: Why doesn't Usain Bolt get the Lance Armstrong treatment from the public?

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Even his name is inadequate. If his name was Legstrong, nobody would dare question his achievements.
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Old 08-19-2012, 08:06 AM   #30
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Default Re: Why doesn't Usain Bolt get the Lance Armstrong treatment from the public?

Its always skeptical to do the things Armstrong did while on one Testicle. Thats why.
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