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Old 08-22-2012, 01:30 AM   #76
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Default Re: United Kingdom threatens to storm Ecuador embassy in order to arrest Julian Assan

Everyone sane knows the "charges" Assange is accused of are only there because of the whole Wikileaks scandal. They need an excuse to put him away, what better excuse is there than sexual assault charges? People who believe his guilt probably believe CNN/BBC as well

If modern western society had any balls left, they'd simply have the guy assassinated instead of brewing up this whole bullshit **** scenario It would be much more simple and effective.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:56 AM   #77
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Default Re: United Kingdom threatens to storm Ecuador embassy in order to arrest Julian Assan

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
I said it did not threaten to storm the Ecuadoran Embassy.
Who? The UK?

Well they quite clearly did:

Quote:
“Under British law we can give them a week’s notice before entering the premises and the embassy will no longer have diplomatic protection,” a Foreign Office spokesman said.
...
“But that decision has not yet been taken. We are not going to do this overnight. We want to stress that we want a diplomatically agreeable solution.”
Source:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/08...eign-minister/

Add to this the letter that the UK also sent to the Ecuador embassy.

Quote:
loling at all the naive idiots applauding Correa's human rights record.
Lolling at you thinking that giving evidence for Ecuador in this one instant means that everyone thinks Ecuador automatically have an immaculate humans right records.

It's pretty clear that Ecuador have an appalling humans rights record and I wouldn't be surprised if they don't give a crap about Assange and are just doing this to piss of the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orka_n View Post
And as for Sweden not making a deal with Assange by promising not to extradite him, that's simple. He is the culprit here and he will never tell our government what to do.
So you're telling me prosecutors can go to Serbia to interview a potential murder suspect yet can't do the same for someone whose charges were intially dropped against him?

Source:
http://www.unt.se/uppsala/mordmissta...n-1701566.aspx
It'll be interesting to see how the situation develops.[/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Assange's Wikileak's may have led to the deaths of many people.
Evidence of this please?

Also do you agree that the wrongdoings of government should be revealed?
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:58 AM   #78
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Default Re: United Kingdom threatens to storm Ecuador embassy in order to arrest Julian Assan

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Originally Posted by Orka_n View Post
Huh? There no point in this discussion trip. Sweden is not perfect of course but the whole world is watching here, chances are very big that Assange would have a fair trial. The legal system in Sweden makes mistakes sometimes because that is inevitable, but like MaxPower said, it is not corrupt.
I think you're missing the point that I was making. Regardless of whether it would be played out, Assange and his supporters have real reasons to fear that Sweden would extradite him to the US once he's on Swedish soil for reasons that I have already stated. At this point, whatever conjectures you and MaxPower are making about how Assange is unlikely to be handed over to the US on a silver platter (which is the real issue here, not the likelihood of a fair trial, which I don't doubt one bit) are just that at the moment - conjectures. There is no guarantee that he wouldn't be extradited because the Swedish government hasn't given it for reasons that I'm not interested in debating. I'm not saying that Sweden should give the guarantee; all I'm doing is pointing out that there is a real basis for Assange and his supporters to fear that Sweden would extradite him to the US. I'm also not making a value judgement on whether he's using that as an excuse to avoid interrogation in Sweden (let's not forget that he hasn't been formally charged).

Also, I have no doubt that Sweden is generally not corrupt. But a country doesn't need to be corrupt to cooperate with one of its most powerful allies. In any event, if/when Assange eventually goes to Sweden for questioning, I really hope that you and MaxPower are right. The last thing that should happen, really, is for Sweden to extradite Assange to the US. That would make entire r@pe allegations obviously about WikiLeaks.
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Old 08-22-2012, 04:31 AM   #79
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Default Re: United Kingdom threatens to storm Ecuador embassy in order to arrest Julian Assan

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Assange's Wikileak's may have led to the deaths of many people.


George Bush going into Iraq/Afghanistan and Barack Obama staying there is also leading to many deaths.
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Old 08-22-2012, 08:48 AM   #80
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Default Re: United Kingdom threatens to storm Ecuador embassy in order to arrest Julian Assan

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Originally Posted by tripwires View Post
I think you're missing the point that I was making. Regardless of whether it would be played out, Assange and his supporters have real reasons to fear that Sweden would extradite him to the US once he's on Swedish soil for reasons that I have already stated. At this point, whatever conjectures you and MaxPower are making about how Assange is unlikely to be handed over to the US on a silver platter (which is the real issue here, not the likelihood of a fair trial, which I don't doubt one bit) are just that at the moment - conjectures. There is no guarantee that he wouldn't be extradited because the Swedish government hasn't given it for reasons that I'm not interested in debating. I'm not saying that Sweden should give the guarantee; all I'm doing is pointing out that there is a real basis for Assange and his supporters to fear that Sweden would extradite him to the US. I'm also not making a value judgement on whether he's using that as an excuse to avoid interrogation in Sweden (let's not forget that he hasn't been formally charged).

Also, I have no doubt that Sweden is generally not corrupt. But a country doesn't need to be corrupt to cooperate with one of its most powerful allies. In any event, if/when Assange eventually goes to Sweden for questioning, I really hope that you and MaxPower are right. The last thing that should happen, really, is for Sweden to extradite Assange to the US. That would make entire r@pe allegations obviously about WikiLeaks.
Yes but from Assanges point of view, if the worst possible thing happens for him and he gets turned over to US once he sets foot in Sweden doesn't that just prove the point about the sexual assault charges only being BS and that it was indeed a conspiracy against him. That almighty US actually has to use mysterious swedish women as agents and setup a chain of events with multiple things that could delay it years but it was the best way. Only then can they finally get hold of Assange, the master of escape and deception and also make themselves look like fools. Assange would become a martyr and he would gain sympathy and regain any support he lost in this sexual assault scandal. Finally he'd also have a reason to compare himself to other victims of major injustice.

Funny thing is that when he first came to Sweden he praised the country for it's open society and even wanted to place wikileaks servers here. Nowadays it sounds very different. Sweden is US pawn, there is appearantly also a big language barrier between UK and Sweden despite english practically being a 2nd language here taught from early age and holding a trial 100% in english wouldn't be an issue. Maybe he could also complain that it's slightly colder as a reason to avoid coming here for trial. Those naughty encounters really changed his entire opinion of Sweden...

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Old 08-22-2012, 10:26 AM   #81
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Default Re: United Kingdom threatens to storm Ecuador embassy in order to arrest Julian Assan

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Originally Posted by MaxPower View Post
Yes but from Assanges point of view, if the worst possible thing happens for him and he gets turned over to US once he sets foot in Sweden doesn't that just prove the point about the sexual assault charges only being BS and that it was indeed a conspiracy against him. That almighty US actually has to use mysterious swedish women as agents and setup a chain of events with multiple things that could delay it years but it was the best way. Only then can they finally get hold of Assange, the master of escape and deception and also make themselves look like fools. Assange would become a martyr and he would gain sympathy and regain any support he lost in this sexual assault scandal. Finally he'd also have a reason to compare himself to other victims of major injustice.

Funny thing is that when he first came to Sweden he praised the country for it's open society and even wanted to place wikileaks servers here. Nowadays it sounds very different. Sweden is US pawn, there is appearantly also a big language barrier between UK and Sweden despite english practically being a 2nd language here taught from early age and holding a trial 100% in english wouldn't be an issue. Maybe he could also complain that it's slightly colder as a reason to avoid coming here for trial. Those naughty encounters really changed his entire opinion of Sweden...
That was pretty funny.

He wouldn't want to be extradited to the US though. Look at what they did to Brad Manning and he's a US citizen. I initially wrote a paragraph in my post ranting about the US' hypocrisy when it comes to using questionable (and I'm using a very mild word here) interrogation tactics but I deleted it because it wasn't entirely relevant, but yes, the next time an American politician talks smack about another country's human rights record, someone should do him/her/them a favour and remind him/her/them of the atrocities that the US has committed over the past decade. It is an embarrassment what the US has become, even more so that the Manning thing happened under Obama's administration. At this point, I would find it bloody hilarious if China granted asylum to Assange just to piss the US off, and I'm a staunch China hater.
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:32 AM   #82
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Default Re: United Kingdom threatens to storm Ecuador embassy in order to arrest Julian Assan



so funny... what everyone needs to get used to is the idea of a western dissident... we're in the middle of a paradigm shift because many western democracies aren't really representative of the people, and perhaps more representative of lobbied interest... i mean, i am sure citizens of the UK are really proud of the fact that their foreign office was able to unite the entire south american continent within 20 minutes... if you look at the thread title what they really said was pretty much 'legally we have a pretty big stick here, just so you know... but, we'd rather not use it...'

the ironic thing is that, if UK admin were to have forced their way into the embassy, it would have placed every other UK embassy in the world under threat... massive backfire... the voice of the UK foreign office almost seems to be an echo that travelled through time from another age... perhaps from a time when other countries feared a big stick...

get used to the western dissident people... the new normal...

class post above too trip...
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:40 AM   #83
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Default Re: United Kingdom threatens to storm Ecuador embassy in order to arrest Julian Assan

i mean, this is the stuff people should really be doing themselves in order to pull the wool from their eyes and see the hypocrisy and decay of who we, the west, think we are... words from inside the UK itself should help, from a former UK ambassador no less...

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archiv...and-illegally/
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:19 PM   #84
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Default Re: United Kingdom threatens to storm Ecuador embassy in order to arrest Julian Assan

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Assange's Wikileak's may have led to the deaths of many people.

But that aside, if everyone was to give asylum to people they wanted to, even though they are not remotely involved, international relaitons would break down completely. That would not worry a banana republic like Ecuador, of course.
No it wouldn't have. It just exposed corruption on a high level. The only death would be Assange, if they get hold of him.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:54 PM   #85
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Default Re: United Kingdom threatens to storm Ecuador embassy in order to arrest Julian Assan

Now I really understand what is going on. Apparently Correa is mad at the US because the American ambassador wrote a cable that documented that Correa corruptly appointed a police chief that would do his bidding. And this came to light when Wikileaks released the cable.

But curiously, or maybe not, Correa seems to have been incensed that the American ambassador would write such a thing, not that he was shown to be corrupt. It could well be part of his psyche that his being corrupt is OK, but saying it out loud is not. Otherwise, why would he be so enamoured of Assange for publishing a cable exposing his corruption? ''Curiouser and curiouser,'' said Alice.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:24 PM   #86
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Default Re: United Kingdom threatens to storm Ecuador embassy in order to arrest Julian Assan

It's amazing how many people here are making Western countries out to be great uncorrupted countries, an utopia which cannot be corrupted.

The fact is, wherever there is power to be held and money to be gained corruption will exist.
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Old 08-22-2012, 04:56 PM   #87
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Default Re: United Kingdom threatens to storm Ecuador embassy in order to arrest Julian Assan

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
That is what you call a treaty.
Yes. A treaty that violates the national Constitutions of each member states of the EU. So we all ought to accept it?


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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Why don't you see the ridiculousness of Ecuador doing the job for a wanted man who happens to be anti-US?
Simple reason: I'm not Ecuadorean (-rian?). It's their own right to host Mr. Assange if they want to and it's not my problem.

I'm concerned about what goes wrong in my country, first and foremost.
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Old 08-22-2012, 05:12 PM   #88
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Default Re: United Kingdom threatens to storm Ecuador embassy in order to arrest Julian Assan

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Originally Posted by GOAT = Fed View Post
Who? The UK?

Well they quite clearly did:



Have you even read the letter? All it does is list the legal options available to Britain. If revoking the diplomatic status of the building is a legal option, it is not a threat to include that in the list.
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Old 08-22-2012, 05:15 PM   #89
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Default Re: United Kingdom threatens to storm Ecuador embassy in order to arrest Julian Assan

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Yes. A treaty that violates the national Constitutions of each member states of the EU. So we all ought to accept it?


This part I am not informed on. Is it unconstitutional for member states of the EU to have extradition treaties?
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Old 08-22-2012, 05:27 PM   #90
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Default Re: United Kingdom threatens to storm Ecuador embassy in order to arrest Julian Assan

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Originally Posted by GOAT = Fed View Post
It's amazing how many people here are making Western countries out to be great uncorrupted countries, an utopia which cannot be corrupted.

The fact is, wherever there is power to be held and money to be gained corruption will exist.
What is your point? Don't you think degree of corruption is what is relevant? On that note, Sweden is 4th least corrupt country, UK is 16th and Ecuador a dismal 120th.

If you had even bothered to consult a corruption index you would see that the least corrupt countries are clearly defined as Western countries. What is amazing is your degree of delusion.

From what you wrote above I could claim that since it did not rain in Sweden yesterday and it did not rain in Saudi Arabia, then the fact is that both are desert countries.
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Last edited by buddyholly : 08-22-2012 at 06:51 PM.
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