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View Poll Results: Who will win the 2012 year-end H2H?

Djokovic will take the lead 31 50.82%
Federer will claim his trophy 25 40.98%
They will end in a draw, for the first time 1 1.64%
I don't know. But this should be an official ATP award, it's amazing. 4 6.56%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-17-2012, 09:05 PM   #1021
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Originally Posted by bounccer View Post
AO 50/50 (Federer is underrated there, in 2008 he was ill, in 2005 he played against an awesome Safin and still had matchs points, in 2009 and 2012, he was great despit his failures against his nemesis)
French 55/45 Djoko (Federer played better in 2011 against him than 95% of his matchs in this tournament, even in his peak years)
Wimbly 90/10 Sorry but it's a blowout here.
USO 60/40 Federer
AO: Nole 60 -40
RG: Fed 60 - 40 (Fed beat Nole in 2011 when he was far from his peak)
WIM: 90-10
USO: 70-30 (Fed almost won in 2011 on that slow surface far from his peak)
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:07 PM   #1022
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Originally Posted by bounccer View Post
Not for the serb obviously, olympic gold is more prestigious, but in term of tennis skills, winning two WTF = one OG (and i'm generous here)
In terms of tennis skills winning WTF is much more difficult than winning Olympics.
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Once upon a time there was a myth about strong and weak eras. On this glorious day the clownery was eventually unmasked: 30 y.o. past-prime daddy Fed became #1 once again in the supposed strong "Spartan" era with his rivals at their peak.
And they all lived happily ever after.
Long live King Federer!


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Old 11-17-2012, 09:10 PM   #1023
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

Djokovic is clearly the better player right now.

Federer is clearly the better player overall.

As for their peak, they are comparable on clay and slow hardcourts (perhaps slight edge to Nole on slow hard and Federer on clay), Federer is better on other surfaces.

As for this imaginary Peak vs Peak matchup, advantage Federer everywhere, bad matchup for Nole combined with Federer just being the better player overall by a distance. Of course being a great player himself Nole would be likely to manage a few wins over Federer anyway, on every surface bar maybe grass - not to mention even at his peak Federer didn't play his best tennis all the time although he was incredibly consistent.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:13 PM   #1024
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Djokovic is clearly the better player right now.

Federer is clearly the better player overall.

As for their peak, they are comparable on clay and slow hardcourts (perhaps slight edge to Nole on slow hard and Federer on clay), Federer is better on other surfaces.

As for this imaginary Peak vs Peak matchup, advantage Federer everywhere, bad matchup for Nole combined with Federer just being the better player overall by a distance. Of course being a great player himself Nole would be likely to manage a few wins over Federer anyway, on every surface bar maybe grass - not to mention even at his peak Federer didn't play his best tennis all the time although he was incredibly consistent.
Good post from a sensible Djokovic fan.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:14 PM   #1025
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by manadrainer View Post
AO: Nole 60 -40
RG: Fed 60 - 40 (Fed beat Nole in 2011 when he was far from his peak)
WIM: 90-10
USO: 70-30 (Fed almost won in 2011 on that slow surface far from his peak)
this is a joke.............and Nole almost won and should have won in 2007 during Fed's peak and before his peak
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:18 PM   #1026
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Post Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by GOAT = Fed View Post
Well Roger has 4 AO and Novak has 3 AO. It isn't outside the realm of possibility that Novak could surpass Roger's AO count. He's 25 and only has to win two more. It can be achieved considering that it's Djokovic's best slam.
Yeah, but Djokovic isn't winning two more Australian Opens. At best, he ties with Roger at 4.
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Originally Posted by Saberq View Post
he will dude that's Murray.....Mandy wont do shit.....Next year Nole will tie Roger for most AO
No, Andy is winning the Australian Open next year, along with Wimbledon and the US Open. Djokovic might get Roland Garros but I'm more inclined to say Nadal will do that. Also, Djokovic winning all 4 slams would be horrible, so I hope he doesn't do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nole fan View Post
That is very very debatable.
No, it really isn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nole fan View Post
Yeah, weak era. Next.
Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:20 PM   #1027
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by Saberq View Post
this is a joke.............and Nole almost won and should have won in 2007 during Fed's peak and before his peak
Not to mention it further mythologizes the slowness of the USO court and also continues the myth that Federer prefers a super fast court.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:21 PM   #1028
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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this is a joke.............and Nole almost won and should have won in 2007 during Fed's peak and before his peak
He lost in straight sets. How should he have won?
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:26 PM   #1029
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by Sapeod View Post
Yeah, but Djokovic isn't winning two more Australian Opens. At best, he ties with Roger at 4.

No, Andy is winning the Australian Open next year, along with Wimbledon and the US Open. Djokovic might get Roland Garros but I'm more inclined to say Nadal will do that. Also, Djokovic winning all 4 slams would be horrible, so I hope he doesn't do it.

No, it really isn't.

Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.
yes and I'm winning $10 million lottery stuff. . love ya Sap, you are just so brilliant

btw, what about RG. man, Murray is so good. you heard it here first. Andy is winning RG beating Rafa in the final, lol
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:27 PM   #1030
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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this is a joke.............and Nole almost won and should have won in 2007 during Fed's peak and before his peak
That`s like say Gonza should have won AO-07. They had their chances, failed to fulfil. Fed stepped it up when mattered.

People underrate how much "clutchness" has with fitness. Fed had 2d best stamina back then, was far more fitter/quicker and so on than Nole. Now the story is different - one of the reasons why nowadays it`s Novak who can win being down at score and who draws power and inspiration, positive attitude from that knowledge.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:28 PM   #1031
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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yes and I'm winning $10 million lottery stuff. . love ya Sap, you are just so brilliant
I wouldn't compare Andy winning 3 slams in one year, which is very capable of doing, to winning the lottery. That's an awful comparison.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:30 PM   #1032
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by manadrainer View Post
AO: Nole 60 -40
RG: Fed 60 - 40 (Fed beat Nole in 2011 when he was far from his peak)
WIM: 90-10
USO: 70-30 (Fed almost won in 2011 on that slow surface far from his peak)
It's much more complicated than this.

Federer is obviously weaker than the Federer of 2005 and 2006 BUT even when he was at his peak he played some really ugly matchs, even in the biggest tournaments, but more often than not, he was great.

Now it's the opposite, more often than not, he's weaker BUT sometimes he plays very very well, like this semi in the French in 2011.

I doubt you have a clear memory of Federer level of play in his peak years.

In the AO 2006 he was very average, weaker than Djokovic for sure. In the French in 2006, he was not THAT great, against Nalbandian in semis he was in a big trouble until this injury, playing like a fool and shanking his shots left and right.

Djokovic is generally much better than this. In 2007, same story, in the French he was so-so against Robredo and very average against Davydenko in the semi, the russian chocked pretty badly in this match. Overall, in 2011 he played his better "big match" in Roland Garros in term of level of play.

So, it's wrong to say "he won past his peak so in his prime he would have win easily". In the REALITY, Federer has never been stellar in the French, but the clay field was very weak. (the fall of Gaudio, Coria, Ferrero and Kuerten's injury didn't help) Proof of that, the fact he managed to be in the final in 2008 despite playing horrible in the whole tournament.

I think that "Jesus-Fed" is better than Djokovic by a fair margin, but in slams, Jesus-Fed wasn't there eveytimes, even in his golden years. Djokovic would definitely have beaten him a few times, for sure.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:34 PM   #1033
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by bounccer View Post
It's much more complicated than this.

Federer is obviously weaker than the Federer of 2005 and 2006 BUT even when he was at his peak he played some really ugly matchs, even in the biggest tournaments, but more often than not, he was great.

Now it's the opposite, more often than not, he's weaker BUT sometimes he plays very very well, like this semi in the French in 2011.

I doubt you have a clear memory of Federer level of play in his peak years.

In the AO 2006 he was very average, weaker than Djokovic for sure. In the French in 2006, he was not THAT great, against Nalbandian in semis he was in a big trouble until this injury, playing like a fool and shanking his shots left and right.

Djokovic is generally much better than this. In 2007, same story, in the French he was so-so against Robredo and very average against Davydenko in the semi, the russian chocked pretty badly in this match. Overall, in 2011 he played his better "big match" in Roland Garros in term of level of play.

So, it's wrong to say "he won past his peak so in his prime he would have win easily". In the REALITY, Federer has never been stellar in the French, but the clay field was very weak. (the fall of Gaudio, Coria, Ferrero and Kuerten's injury didn't help) Proof of that, the fact he managed to be in the final in 2008 despite playing horrible in the whole tournament.

I think that "Jesus-Fed" is better than Djokovic by a fair margin, but in slams, Jesus-Fed wasn't there eveytimes, even in his golden years. Djokovic would definitely have beaten him a few times, for sure.
You're acting as if Roger wouldn't raise his level against Djokovic
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MATCH WIN/LOSS: 460-146...
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:37 PM   #1034
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

BTW Federer had been soso in a lot of his big matchs, but he managed to win almost all of them, thanks to his greatness AND by his luck a few times.

AO 2004, he was definitely beatable, same in Wimbly 2004, USO 2004 (except in the final). Against Agassi in the USO 2005 he was not that good either, AO 2006, French 2007, USO 2007....... Same as Djokovic obviously, the serb was clearly beatable in all of his slams bar AO 2008 and 2011 where he was really great.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:37 PM   #1035
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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I wouldn't compare Andy winning 3 slams in one year, which is very capable of doing, to winning the lottery. That's an awful comparison.
hm, there is a problem with your crystal ball bud (or shall I say your wishful thinking). His name is Novak Djokovic. I hope you know who he is . if not just ask
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