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View Poll Results: Who will win the 2012 year-end H2H?

Djokovic will take the lead 31 50.82%
Federer will claim his trophy 25 40.98%
They will end in a draw, for the first time 1 1.64%
I don't know. But this should be an official ATP award, it's amazing. 4 6.56%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-21-2012, 04:02 AM   #811
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

Nadal was not moving in the 3rd set of the 2007 Hamburg final. Gee, wonder why he lost.

Why was a less comfortable Nadal the 2 set winner a year later? Federer was healthy on his favorite low-bounce clay court, served twice for the 1st set, had set point, but lost in 2 sets?
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Old 10-21-2012, 04:08 AM   #812
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

It was three sets, hun.

7-5 6-7 6-3.
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Old 10-21-2012, 05:22 AM   #813
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by Tag View Post
i'm taking grand slams, not masters here
You're taking one match. Using a reasonable extrapolation of your reasoning, one would also conclude that Del Potro is better than Federer on fast hard court.

Quote:
regardless, i rank kuerten above the abusive swiss when it comes to the red stuff
It's fine that you have your opinion. Likewise, I have my observation that Kuerten never played anyone who is close to Nadal on clay.

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come at me
Settle down darling. Not every differing opinion arises due to animosity to you personally.

Edit: The 'ready to play' comment wasn't a challenge, just in case you thought it was. It was there for people who always say that Kuerten had a hurt back when Fed gave him that bagel.

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Old 10-21-2012, 09:53 AM   #814
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

For all the haters who say Fed benefited of clown opponents in RG 2009, why couldn't Nole benefit of such a weak draw?

Oh yeah, he lost to clay legend Kohlshreiber in straight sets... while Nadal was being spanked by Soderling. Also, after this year I am not buying the "injured excuse" anymore. Clearly Nadal was injured this year at RG (don't tell me he got such a serious injury playing 2 matches in Halle and 2 at Wimbledon), and still managed to win losing only one set in the final. Therefore I think he could have easily won in 2009 if he hadn't met a red-hot Soderling who simply outplayed him.

Haas didn't choke. He had BP at 4-4 in the third, Fed saved it with an inside-out forehand on the line. I wouldn't call that a choke. After that, Fed outplayed him.
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Old 10-21-2012, 09:59 AM   #815
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by manadrainer View Post
For all the haters who say Fed benefited of clown opponents in RG 2009, why couldn't Nole benefit of such a weak draw?

Oh yeah, he lost to clay legend Kohlshreiber... while Nadal was being spanked by Soderling. Also, after this year I am not buying the "injured excuse" anymore. Clearly Nadal was injured this year at RG (don't tell me he got such a serious injury playing 2 matches in Halle and 2 at Wimbledon), and still managed to win losing only one set in the final. Therefore I think he could have easily won in 2009 if he hadn't met a red-hot Soderling who simply outplayed him.
In 2009, Nadal was poor for his standarts but still excellent and better than a lot of RG's champions in the last 20 years.

Without Soderling, i'm 95% certain he would have won the title.

Davydenko in quarter? No fitness, no mental toughness
Gonzalez in semis? Gonzalez was great but on clay with a backhand so weak he wouldn't have any chance.
Federer in final? Easy, considering the swiss's level of play this tournament.

Imagine the Nadal 2011 in the 4th round against an opponent who plays excellent like Soderling in 2009. I bet he would have lose too.
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:18 PM   #816
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

heya trying to peak for his/her 10 year anniversary on MTF.
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:27 PM   #817
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

All your excuses are worthless. Nadull was fine.
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Davis Cup should never have really mattered in the GOAT discussion anyway since it's a team event. If you're talking about the GOAT singles player then you should mainly look at individual results.
If some unknown talent came out of some random tiny country (no chance to win DC) and won 20 slams, no one would give a single shit if that player didn't have DC. The fact is, success in DC is largely determined by what country you come from or play for in the first place, which most players haven't had any control over.
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:34 PM   #818
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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come on he was fucked up in Madrid......
Shame on you for taking anything Looner says seriously.
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:42 PM   #819
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
Shame on you for taking anything Looner says seriously.
Stop spamming the topic, Nadulltard. This not about retired players. However, I wil repeat this again for your convenience - Nadull was OK in both of those finals.
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Davis Cup should never have really mattered in the GOAT discussion anyway since it's a team event. If you're talking about the GOAT singles player then you should mainly look at individual results.
If some unknown talent came out of some random tiny country (no chance to win DC) and won 20 slams, no one would give a single shit if that player didn't have DC. The fact is, success in DC is largely determined by what country you come from or play for in the first place, which most players haven't had any control over.
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:26 PM   #820
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by Tag View Post
federer tried to convince everyone that he could play on clay

he smiled smugly as his hard court game worked on homogenized clay courts

when federer had to face someone who could properly play on clay, like nadal, or kuerten, he lost

djokovic had the honestly to admit that he was ok on clay, but not great

yet he beat nadal with conviction

arrogant federer needed no such humility

he relied on choking haas, injured nadal, and choking del potro to eventually win RG with his 'new and improved' clay game
if you talk about injurys , this year nadal with injurys and pain defeated djokovic confortable with the exception of the 3ºset because the rain , but in normal clay conditioons nadal with injurys and pain in all tourny defeated nole.

you say that federer not improve his game for the clay , but many people say that federer style was much more agressive and he go more often to the net but when federer was crazy for won roland garros he started to play more from the baseline
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:35 PM   #821
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

At their respective peaks Federer is clearly the better player and he has the better clay career to date. It will be very hard for Nole to end up having a better career on clay given that he only has two, or at most, three more realistic chances at RG so winning two will be extremely difficult.

If Nadal returns at a high level then it becomes rather marginal as to whether he will ever win the tournament, but a fast declining Nadal should see him pick up a RG, but still end with worse numbers than Federer.

All arguments as to who a competitor played are irrelevant. Tennis is played against the field not just Nadal.
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:57 PM   #822
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by manadrainer View Post
For all the haters who say Fed benefited of clown opponents in RG 2009, why couldn't Nole benefit of such a weak draw?

Oh yeah, he lost to clay legend Kohlshreiber in straight sets... while Nadal was being spanked by Soderling. Also, after this year I am not buying the "injured excuse" anymore. Clearly Nadal was injured this year at RG (don't tell me he got such a serious injury playing 2 matches in Halle and 2 at Wimbledon), and still managed to win losing only one set in the final. Therefore I think he could have easily won in 2009 if he hadn't met a red-hot Soderling who simply outplayed him.

Haas didn't choke. He had BP at 4-4 in the third, Fed saved it with an inside-out forehand on the line. I wouldn't call that a choke. After that, Fed outplayed him.
Listen guy, once and for all, if Fed has an easy draw - he has an easy draw. And it has nothing to do with other players' draws and how they use or fail to use them.

Fed got a cakewalk VULTURE 2009 RG. Be happy with it and know he got lucky. Just like he knows it.
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Old 10-21-2012, 05:19 PM   #823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finishingmove View Post
Listen guy, once and for all, if Fed has an easy draw - he has an easy draw. And it has nothing to do with other players' draws and how they use or fail to use them.

Fed got a cakewalk VULTURE 2009 RG. Be happy with it and know he got lucky. Just like he knows it.
you're right.

What I am trying to say is that many players get easy draws and can't even take advantage of it.
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Once upon a time there was a myth about strong and weak eras. On this glorious day the clownery was eventually unmasked: 30 y.o. past-prime daddy Fed became #1 once again in the supposed strong "Spartan" era with his rivals at their peak.
And they all lived happily ever after.
Long live King Federer!


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Old 10-22-2012, 12:43 AM   #824
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by manadrainer View Post
you're right.

What I am trying to say is that many players get easy draws and can't even take advantage of it.
+1
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:02 AM   #825
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by finishingmove View Post
Listen guy, once and for all, if Fed has an easy draw - he has an easy draw. And it has nothing to do with other players' draws and how they use or fail to use them.

Fed got a cakewalk VULTURE 2009 RG. Be happy with it and know he got lucky. Just like he knows it.
Good to know that Fed did not get an easy draw in 2009 then. Cya, guy.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbis View Post
Davis Cup should never have really mattered in the GOAT discussion anyway since it's a team event. If you're talking about the GOAT singles player then you should mainly look at individual results.
If some unknown talent came out of some random tiny country (no chance to win DC) and won 20 slams, no one would give a single shit if that player didn't have DC. The fact is, success in DC is largely determined by what country you come from or play for in the first place, which most players haven't had any control over.
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