Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Their rivalry) - Page 52 - MensTennisForums.com

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View Poll Results: Who will win the 2012 year-end H2H?

Djokovic will take the lead 31 50.82%
Federer will claim his trophy 25 40.98%
They will end in a draw, for the first time 1 1.64%
I don't know. But this should be an official ATP award, it's amazing. 4 6.56%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-20-2012, 04:28 AM   #766
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by MIMIC View Post
Would Federer have 4 finals if he had to play Nadal in the semis and the quarter-finals all the time?
Yes?
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:29 AM   #767
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by MIMIC View Post
And why does Federer have that many finals? Because he didn't have Nadal on his side, unlike Djokovic.

Would Federer have 4 finals if he had to play Nadal in the semis and the quarter-finals all the time?
Fed wasn't the one who gimped out against Kohlschreiber and Melzer (blowing a two set lead in the process)
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:32 AM   #768
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Fed wasn't the one who gimped out against Kohlschreiber and Melzer (blowing a two set lead in the process)
Basically if Nole wins 2 FOs, he'd be ahead of Federer, with or without beating Nadal, and no matter how many finals Olderer had there...
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:34 AM   #769
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by finishingmove View Post
Basically if Nole wins 2 FOs, he'd be ahead of Federer, with or without beating Nadal, and no matter how many finals Olderer had there...
I agree with that.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:40 AM   #770
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Fed wasn't the one who gimped out against Kohlschreiber and Melzer (blowing a two set lead in the process)
Let me put it this way: at 19, Djokovic was good enough to reach Nadal. How long did it take Federer to get that far at RG?

So Djokovic is allowed to "gimp out" once or twice; Federer "gimped out" plenty of times before Djokovic did.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:44 AM   #771
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Fed wasn't the one who gimped out against Kohlschreiber and Melzer (blowing a two set lead in the process)
Yup. That right there is enough to tell you Djoke is not on Roger's level as far as clay is concerned. Roger only lost to the clay GOAT at RG from 2005-2009. Lets see if Djoke can achieve that kind of consitency.
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:53 AM   #772
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by MIMIC View Post
And why does Federer have that many finals? Because he didn't have Nadal on his side, unlike Djokovic.

Would Federer have 4 finals if he had to play Nadal in the semis and the quarter-finals all the time?
This is an unusual argument, after many years of "Why does Djokovic always draw Federer in the SF"? Are Djokovic fans now complaining both of always drawing Federer and always drawing Nadal?
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:59 AM   #773
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

Djokovic at his super absolute peak lost in 2011 against 30-yo, over the hill Federer. That should tell you much who's better in clay.
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:45 AM   #774
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
This is an unusual argument, after many years of "Why does Djokovic always draw Federer in the SF"? Are Djokovic fans now complaining both of always drawing Federer and always drawing Nadal?
The argument was that Djokovic must go through Nadal in order to be seen as "better on clay", considering Federer's many RG finals. Well, Federer made those finals because he didn't have to go through Nadal. If Federer had to go through Nadal to make an RG final (like Djokovic had to for many years), would he get to the final? No, so why is Djokovic being asked to do something not even Federer would be able to do in order to be better on clay?

One man stopped Federer for 5 years just like that same man stopped Djokovic for 4 years.

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Originally Posted by atennisfan View Post
Djokovic at his super absolute peak lost in 2011 against 30-yo, over the hill Federer. That should tell you much who's better in clay.
And when "super absolute peak" Federer lost to "infant" Nadal in Dubai and Miami back in '04 and '06, did that tell us who was better on hard? Or does this logic about a player's age only apply when it benefits Federer?

I find it rather funny how Federer fans hate it when Nadal fans bring up the H2H, but then go and do the same thing when it comes to Djokovic.
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:18 AM   #775
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

Federer beat Djokovic in 2011 but to be fair, it was the fastest clay court in Roland Garros since 1996, it's hardly representative. Federer was excellent and played far better than usual, almost as good as in 2006. In this particular match, it was almost a "peak" Federer. Djokovic played pretty well too and he almost turn the score in his advantage, it was really close.

Djokovic was on fire since a few months but he was unlucky that a peak Federer woke up suddenly after many years of sleeping.
Djokovic was the ultra favorite in this match. Notice that Djokovic had been the ultra favorite two times in his career against Federer: RG 2011 and Wimbly 2012, he lost both. There's maybe a pattern here.


Peak vs peak, i think it's 50/50, maybe 51/49 for Federer because he match up well against the serb, but it's not sure either. Against the rest of the field, it's a draw. Djokovic struggled against Seppi and Tsonga but this year he played his worst slam since Wimbly 2010. He made the final only because the clay's field sucks and Federer was even worse. It's amazing that he manages to take a set from Nadal in these conditions. In 2011, he would probably have won. For the future, it will depend of Nadal. If he returns at the top, it will be tough for Djokovic, if not, a French title is almost a given.

I think he has 2013 and 2014. 2015 maybe but it will be hard. Later, it will be too late
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:22 AM   #776
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

Djokovic 2012 is almost the same that Federer 2008, he sucked badly but he was still good enough to made the final.

Difference is, Nadal played far better in 2008 and Djokovic played better in the final this year, while Federer played even worse than in his previous rounds. (Add to this the match-up and the mental edge)
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Old 10-20-2012, 10:45 AM   #777
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

Fed fans you are just discrediting your man by giving reasonable comments about this no thread
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:54 AM   #778
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

Federer made 5 RG finals from ages 24-29.

Djokovic had to go through Nadal in QF/SF for 3 consecutive years when the Spaniard was at his absolute best on clay so it's understandable that Djokovic has only reached one RG final so far. But there are the losses to Kohlschreiber and Melzer lingering and those are players he should have never lost to at RG if he is that good on clay. He also lost to Federer in 2011.

But we will see if from now on he can reach many RG finals and show how good he really is at RG.

Nadal is declining, the Serb has no excuses now if he can't beat him at RG.

Djokovic and Murray have it easier now that Fedal are declining.
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:14 PM   #779
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

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Originally Posted by MIMIC View Post
And why does Federer have that many finals? Because he didn't have Nadal on his side, unlike Djokovic.

Would Federer have 4 finals if he had to play Nadal in the semis and the quarter-finals all the time?
This.
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:16 PM   #780
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Who will end up with the better clay career)

Also just because someone is beaten at his peak by some player that doesnt mean that player is better than him.Everyone can have a good or a bad day
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