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View Poll Results: Who will win the 2012 year-end H2H?

Djokovic will take the lead 31 50.82%
Federer will claim his trophy 25 40.98%
They will end in a draw, for the first time 1 1.64%
I don't know. But this should be an official ATP award, it's amazing. 4 6.56%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-13-2012, 01:45 PM   #286
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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Originally Posted by Matt01 View Post
Ok don't worry, I'll explain it to you again

The Top 3 players ATM are clearly Nadal, Fed and Djoker. Each of them have won one Slam this year (Nadal: RG, Fed: WI, Djoker: AO).

The next biggest tournament after the Slams this year has been, depening on how you see it, either the Olympics (which has been won by Murray who isn't Top 3 so it's irrelevant) or Miami, which has often been called the "5th Slam". I personally disagree with it being the "5h Slam" but it's one of the most prestigious and important tournaments (after the Slams) for sure. Therefore, Djoker has, compared to the other players of the Top 3, won the biggest tournaments this year.
You can't just decide Miami is the most important just 'cause your guy won it!
IW is pretty much the same as Miami, and when Federer won it he defeated one of the top 3 guys you named in his way, which Djoker didn't do in Miami.
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:46 PM   #287
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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Originally Posted by yesyesok View Post
I think people read far too much into defending point, this nonsense that post US Open Federer has 'so many points to defend'.

The smarter folk just look at the YTD rankings, and Djokovic is what? 600 ahead. So really you can't say one is in a much stronger position, (when you consider that Djokovic *should* be tired and Federer *should* be clear favourite for Cinci), so if one of them wins the US Open then they will be in the strongest position and can only lose YE#1 after that.

I don't think either of them will win the US Open, and it could come down to London.
Who then? Murray? Del Potro?





Quote:
Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
Wll, noone who ever won 10+ slams managed as many titles after their 25th birthday as they did before. Since Djokovic has been 25 for some months now, he would be an exeption to the rule if he were to reach 10.
Interesting.

Maybe Novak ends up with 8 or 9 slams.

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Old 08-13-2012, 01:48 PM   #288
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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Who then? Murray? Del Potro?
Donald Young. Who else?
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:51 PM   #289
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

I wrote the same here like on DJoko-Gasquet thread, i believe Novak is in better position to end 2012 as No.1, after Canada he not only defended 1000 points, but Roger even lost few points here. Now he has to defend Cinci F and USO W - thats 2600 points, he can defend that i believe, if even not nothing horrible for him, because basically he can gain on every tournament after that, i mean he is playing Beijing this year, hope Shanghai too, and than Basel, Paris, WTF he can get there a lot of points. On other hand Roger played to many matches already this season and i am not sure if he can have another great indoor season, he can be more tired also competition from Nole-Murray can be much higher this season than last one for sure - add to that Tsonga, Delpo or Berdych in form and no way he will again win 3000 indoor points. Right now Nole is looking better, but i hope champion of USO will end the year as No.1. - among Nole-Roger, simply as that 4 slams and if Roger or Nole have 2 from 4 than deserve to be No.1 for that year.
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:53 PM   #290
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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Miami has bigger draw than main part of another Masters, due to this I can agree that Miami > Toronto or Madrid, for example. But the same story is about IW. Two the most prestigious Masters titles. Novak won Miami, but Federer got title in IW. Draw.

Miami is the more prestigious, older and more "famous" tournament between IW and Miami, even though they are "technically" of the same value (draw, ranking points etc.) so I disagree with you here.

If we say assume that Miami and IW are the same, then one extra Slam final for Djoker compared to Fed should give Djoker the edge this year anyway.
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:55 PM   #291
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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Originally Posted by romismak View Post
I wrote the same here like on DJoko-Gasquet thread, i believe Novak is in better position to end 2012 as No.1, after Canada he not only defended 1000 points, but Roger even lost few points here. Now he has to defend Cinci F and USO W - thats 2600 points, he can defend that i believe, if even not nothing horrible for him, because basically he can gain on every tournament after that, i mean he is playing Beijing this year, hope Shanghai too, and than Basel, Paris, WTF he can get there a lot of points. On other hand Roger played to many matches already this season and i am not sure if he can have another great indoor season, he can be more tired also competition from Nole-Murray can be much higher this season than last one for sure - add to that Tsonga, Delpo or Berdych in form and no way he will again win 3000 indoor points. Right now Nole is looking better, but i hope champion of USO will end the year as No.1. - among Nole-Roger, simply as that 4 slams and if Roger or Nole have 2 from 4 than deserve to be No.1 for that year.
Forget about "defending". In the Race Novak on the first place, he leads with something like 400 points. That really matters.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:02 PM   #292
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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Originally Posted by Matt01 View Post
Miami is the more prestigious, older and more "famous" tournament between IW and Miami, even though they are "technically" of the same value (draw, ranking points etc.) so I disagree with you here.

If we say assume that Miami and IW are the same, then one extra Slam final for Djoker compared to Fed should give Djoker the edge this year anyway.
Famous to whom? Casual fans don`t know at all about both - only Slams I asume. And people who heard about Miami should have known IW too.

Not bad way to count if you wish to see at all costs Nole on the first place. But maybe continue with titles? Then again we will see that they won another Masters - Madrid and Toronto. What is more "worth winning"? Discussable I guess.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:06 PM   #293
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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Famous to whom? Casual fans don`t know at all about both - only Slams I asume. And people who heard about Miami should have known IW too.

I think more non-tennis fans know Mimai since IW is a newer tournament.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanya View Post
Not bad way to count if you wish to see at all costs Nole on the first place. But maybe continue with titles? Then again we will see that they won another Masters - Madrid and Toronto. What is more "worth winning"? Discussable I guess.

Well, I'm just posting my opinion and try go give some arguments for it You're allowed to disagree with me as long as your username isn't Looner, safin-rules-#1, honestly or durrrrr.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:07 PM   #294
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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Originally Posted by Matt01 View Post
Miami is the more prestigious, older and more "famous" tournament between IW and Miami, even though they are "technically" of the same value (draw, ranking points etc.) so I disagree with you here.

If we say assume that Miami and IW are the same, then one extra Slam final for Djoker compared to Fed should give Djoker the edge this year anyway.
Wait, Miami is more prestigious than IW but Wimbledon is not more prestigious than the Australian Open?
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:09 PM   #295
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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Wait, Miami is more prestigious than IW but Wimbledon is not more prestigious than the Australian Open?
Now you see for yourself how hard is to deal with him.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:09 PM   #296
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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Originally Posted by Matt01 View Post
Ok don't worry, I'll explain it to you again

The Top 3 players ATM are clearly Nadal, Fed and Djoker. Each of them have won one Slam this year (Nadal: RG, Fed: WI, Djoker: AO).

The next biggest tournament after the Slams this year has been, depening on how you see it, either the Olympics (which has been won by Murray who isn't Top 3 so it's irrelevant) or Miami, which has often been called the "5th Slam". I personally disagree with it being the "5h Slam" but it's one of the most prestigious and important tournaments (after the Slams) for sure. Therefore, Djoker has, compared to the other players of the Top 3, won the biggest tournaments this year.
Miami isn't bigger than Olympics, not a chance. ESPECIALLY this Miami which was littered with retirements and pullouts. Murray himself was trying to tank his way out and kept getting free passes through the draw.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:13 PM   #297
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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Forget about "defending". In the Race Novak on the first place, he leads with something like 400 points. That really matters.
I am also by myself using Race as No.1 criteria, but i wrote here about defenind, because it is important in that category - that No.1 will probably switch between them at least twice in next few months. Nole was defending until now almost everything and that partially helped Roger to achieve No.1 again, howewer than Roger will be defending a lot indoor points and Nole can get there points. Also race can be little wrong- because not every single point is counted to ranking - so if it will be close after WTF than those non-contable points from smaller tournaments can be important.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:15 PM   #298
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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Originally Posted by Matt01 View Post
Well, I'm just posting my opinion and try go give some arguments for it You're allowed to disagree with me as long as your username isn't Looner, safin-rules-#1, honestly or durrrrr.
No problems, but titles > finals, I don`t think it that difficult. And I`m intrested what you`ll reply to Snowwy. He is right, if Miami > IW owing to prestigious and "famous" than Wimbledon > AO even more.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:15 PM   #299
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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outside indoors Nadal owns Fed and always will..I know you are butt hurt by that but deal with it
Negative. Bringing up nadull in the Second half of the year is irrelevant. The "faster" season. Especially with reference to fed. Fed is 6-1 over nadull in the second half of the year.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:19 PM   #300
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

Rafole fans showing their "knowledge" of tennis by painting the whole tour with one brush. He. He.
Nadull is basically a non factor for fed during this part of the year.
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