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Old 07-26-2012, 12:39 PM   #166
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

I honestly doubt if any of you read what I actually posted. I haven't said once that Clay Death's ban is correct. What I'm challenging is all his supporters here who are blindly backing him when they don't know what his actual offenses are. How can you be so sure he shouldn't be permanently banned when you have no idea how many infractions he has had and what the content of his deleted posts were? From what I have seen of him on GM since he arrived on MTF I am not surprised at all that it has come to this. In fact I thought he was pretty lucky to have not been permanently banned in 2008. A lot of you are defending him weren't around then - he was literally one of the most tiresome and insufferable trolls ever to grace this forum and that is saying something. He has changed since then admittedly but it doesn't change the fact he was already given a big chance back then. You can still see shades of the old Clay Death this year when the right people push his buttons. He has been tethering on the brink of the rules for the entire time he has been here. What I've been trying to say the whole is that none of us know exactly how the decision was made. I highly doubt it was because he had X number of very minor infractions like some of you are implying. None of you have concrete reason as to why the decision was wrong. All you keep saying is that he was a good bloke and contributed to the forum. That alone is not exactly a reason for someone to escape a permanent ban. On the same token I'm not saying the moderators decision is absolutely correct either.

Masterclass are you trying to scare people away with your huge blocks of text or what? My comment about it being reviewed has nothing to do with CD. It's a comment on the moderation here. Maybe you should read my post properly without your rose tinted glasses on. For someone with a history as long as CD to get permanently banned it would be fair to assume the moderators spent a significant amount of time coming to this decision, no? For them to review it straight away and revoke the ban (should this be the final outcome) undermines their authority and makes them look like a bit of joke if I'm being honest.
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:20 PM   #167
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

I reviewed CD's case and decided that he gets unbanned. Do it. Now.
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:38 PM   #168
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Data View Post
I reviewed CD's case and decided that he gets unbanned. Do it. Now.
if not, you move up to be CD 1.

Data approves.
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:40 PM   #169
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hat__boy View Post
No, you're right. That is exactly what he did and he had no business doing so. But another Start da Game, he was not.
If we'd been talking about Start da Game, my only comment in this thread would have been, "Good riddance."
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:42 PM   #170
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiedis View Post
Calling me stupid and said that "you need a brain" it's not personal attack, but taliban it is. Yeah. I'm asking myself if calling somebody 'snitch', 'crybaby' and 'liar' would be a personal attack, too.
Maybe coz everyone can be stupid but not everyone can be taliban?
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:02 PM   #171
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

We are talking about the last ACC finalist. A majestic arse-clown.
He wouldn't post in chat thread, everybody would salute his departure.
Anyway, permaban is not a good thing except extreme and intolerable actions.

So I support the return of Clay Death even if I think he is stupid and useless in this board.
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:17 PM   #172
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

Long, long overdue.

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Old 07-26-2012, 02:18 PM   #173
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by finishingmove View Post
To answer the question masterclass asked: I think infractions have some absurd duration (1 year or so) before expiring and becoming inactive. There are also infractions that never expire, if I am correct.

But even though this system could use some technical improvement, it comes down to the mods.

I agree with the majority of people here. Clay Death is an incredibly valuable poster. A forum icon even. He opened the door of his chat thread to everyone. It's one of the -- if not THE biggest chat thread on this forum, and everyone who had contact with those people and him know it's a warm and friendly environment.

On the other hand, he is also a tennis aficionado. But his need to pursue tennis discussions has backfired on him too many times.

Why is it so?

People browse this forum out of boredom. When they see such a persistent poster, they don't understand him. They find his need to grind discussions to the smallest details tedious. They don't understand that his need for passionate discussions is not necessarily aggressive in nature. Needless to say, some instantly see him as an enemy for praising the skills of a player they don't like, or a player that is in some way a threat to their favourite player.

It is the fault of such a toxic environment that conflicts arise. Casual posters would be briefly shocked by the obnoxiousness of the attackers, but they would quickly forget about it and move along (move away). But a persistent poster like Clay Death, who has put so much into this forum, has the need to hold his ground. Alas, that makes him an even more attractive target for malicious posters.

There are times at which I truly admired Clay Death's perseverance. There are few people who withstood such abuse, coming not only from other posters but also mods! Yet, he did his best to keep his cool and continue like nothing's happened.

Imagine if MTF were as big a part of your world as it is to Clay Death. Now imagine if you suffered such abuse. How long would you last without retaliating? How would your defensive mechanism look like?

I'm glad that masterclass and a few others have noticed the same thing I have. Clay Death was being provoked on a daily basis by people whose sole purpose on this forum seemed to be exactly that -- to provoke him. How can he be banned while these people are allowed to post ? Does that make sense in any system?

I have no doubt that Clay Death still has a place on this forum and that he'd be able to function in it. But only if the forum still needs people who contribute to it. Otherwise, MTF might as well call it a day.
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:52 PM   #174
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiedis View Post
Calling me stupid and said that "you need a brain" it's not personal attack, but taliban it is. Yeah. I'm asking myself if calling somebody 'snitch', 'crybaby' and 'liar' would be a personal attack, too.
Oh the irony and you're telling me to watch my mouth. Fact is Kiedis, please get some sense and don't be so naive, it'll help with life outside of MTF too.
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:55 PM   #175
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

HKz vs Kiedis don't make this a one man show about yourself, this thread is for appealing / agreeing on CD's ban.
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:58 PM   #176
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

I don't get this. He broke the rules, several times, and eventually got banned. I personally believe that following the rules isn't such a hard thing to do. It's as easy as it gets, be decent, and you won't get banned.

And please, quit the "he only attacked people who attacked him" speech, because we all know that is very far from true. No matter how nice and cool he was to his friends in the chat threads, he was often aggressive and offensive on GM, and there is no way around it.
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:59 PM   #177
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
I honestly doubt if any of you read what I actually posted. I haven't said once that Clay Death's ban is correct. What I'm challenging is all his supporters here who are blindly backing him when they don't know what his actual offenses are. How can you be so sure he shouldn't be permanently banned when you have no idea how many infractions he has had and what the content of his deleted posts were? From what I have seen of him on GM since he arrived on MTF I am not surprised at all that it has come to this. In fact I thought he was pretty lucky to have not been permanently banned in 2008. A lot of you are defending him weren't around then - he was literally one of the most tiresome and insufferable trolls ever to grace this forum and that is saying something. He has changed since then admittedly but it doesn't change the fact he was already given a big chance back then. You can still see shades of the old Clay Death this year when the right people push his buttons. He has been tethering on the brink of the rules for the entire time he has been here. What I've been trying to say the whole is that none of us know exactly how the decision was made. I highly doubt it was because he had X number of very minor infractions like some of you are implying. None of you have concrete reason as to why the decision was wrong. All you keep saying is that he was a good bloke and contributed to the forum. That alone is not exactly a reason for someone to escape a permanent ban. On the same token I'm not saying the moderators decision is absolutely correct either.

Masterclass are you trying to scare people away with your huge blocks of text or what? My comment about it being reviewed has nothing to do with CD. It's a comment on the moderation here. Maybe you should read my post properly without your rose tinted glasses on. For someone with a history as long as CD to get permanently banned it would be fair to assume the moderators spent a significant amount of time coming to this decision, no? For them to review it straight away and revoke the ban (should this be the final outcome) undermines their authority and makes them look like a bit of joke if I'm being honest.
Everyone totally missing this bolded part. They just see the posts they want to see of his (certainly never his numerous deleted ones) and then they even have the mind to think he was the one being persecuted for nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnriqueIG8 View Post
HKz vs Kiedis don't make this a one man show about yourself, this thread is for appealing / agreeing on CD's ban.
He's the one that made it about himself he called me taliban in this thread and got an infraction and this involves this naive boy Kiedis considering he is one of Clay Fail's greatest supporters.
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Old 07-26-2012, 04:02 PM   #178
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

There is no such thing as being provoked. Bullshit. Never an excuse. Clay Death is a terrible poster, we all know that but he deserves to come back because permaban someone for repeated rule violations is wrong. Permaban should be used only for intolerable actions.
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Old 07-26-2012, 04:09 PM   #179
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HKz View Post
He's the one that made it about himself he called me taliban in this thread and got an infraction and this involves this naive boy Kiedis considering he is one of Clay Fail's greatest supporters.
As a 'supporter' or how you guys wanna call it, of CD's return I respect the opinions of the people who do think he should stay permabanned (you, Leng, Karin, Raquel and trippy) and indeed some of his supporters are clowns of the highest order. I won't call names, but he did have some delusional fanboys who gave me the impression that they are just retarded as can be.

But the last couple of posts between you and Kiedis is going on and on about Taliban and other stuff inappropriate for this thread so please be the wiser of the two and cut that crap.


Let's just talk whether CD should return or not, and if he returns what his punishment should be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagsquet View Post
There is no such thing as being provoked. Bullshit. Never an excuse. Clay Death is a terrible poster, we all know that but he deserves to come back because permabanned someone for repeated rule violations is wrong. Permaban should be used only for intolerable actions.
Not always agree with you, but you have a point in this.


Short and powerful message, but so much truth in it. And yes CD is a terrible poster in GM sometimes, and I was around in 2008 when he was a lunatic but I think he improved his behaviour.

Did he go too far (whether provoked or not) sometime? Yes.
Did he really made an intolerable action? No.
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Old 07-26-2012, 04:11 PM   #180
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiedis View Post
You don't got my point. You writed in a precedent post that if mods had previously punished CD it would be for some justified reason. Well, you better than anyone should know that bans can be very random here.
leng jai's ban wasn't random. It was well-deserved, but the duration didn't make sense because his DA was pretty much harmless. I've already explained over and over why I think CD's ban is justified in my opinion so I'll just leave it at that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hat__boy View Post
I'm not surprised people found him douchey in GM, at all, but I don't think that is a good enough analysis of his behaviour for this thread.

The specifics are important to each case. I just mean the specifics of each case are not relevant to the other, because, as you said, they are different offences/infractions. I just think the sentiment of the posters, that Leng Jai's actions be put in full context and reevaluated, using his own history and the history of the offence itself, should be shared with this discussion.
I don't disagree. Therefore, taking into account CD's pattern of posting in GM, I think he's got this permaban coming. A poster doesn't rake up infractions for no reason. I can be pretty rude in GM at times, especially when I'm PMSing, but I don't do it on such a regular basis that I've received a warning or infraction so far. The fact that CD accumulated enough infractions (presumably for his posts in GM; I never saw the same douchey behaviour in the chat threads) to get this permaban says a lot about the frequency of his less-than-pleasant posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looner View Post
Well, I (and I think most of the Fed fans) have a lot of respect for Johnny Groove despite his unfortunate choice of player to support. I'm sure you'd welcomed in GM if you did not offend anyone.
Er...speak for yourself. Totally don't share your Johnny Groove love. My favourite Rafa fan is acionescu.
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