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Old 07-24-2012, 10:54 PM   #61
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Default Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

It's very impressive but not as a H2H record, but rather as another testament of his clay court skills.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:03 PM   #62
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Default Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

The question is not if claycourt matches should be taken away entirely but if he has played too many matches on clay against Federer and Djokovic (lets leave Murray out of this).

I mean 28 out of 61 matches on clay against his 2 greatest rivals means 46% of his matches against them has been on claycourt. Claycourts represent 25% of the tournaments on tour, so if this h2h would be fair he would not have almost half his matches on claycourts.

Imagine if Federer had half of his matches against Nadal/Djokovic on grass or indoor courts, how do you think the h2h would look like?

If Djokovic had half his matches against Nadal/Federer on slow hardcourt I think he would be leading both in the h2h.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:05 PM   #63
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Default Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

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Originally Posted by Ash86 View Post
You're probably the only one who thinks that. 81 on clay is far more impressive. a) It's a lot more - 81 matches is a lot. b) That's over Masters. 500s, slams - lots of events, lots of players. Fed's are Halle and Wimbledon - winning best of 5 matches on grass at his peak wasn't that hard for him and an upset hard to pull off. That leaves winning Halle 5 years in a row - Nadal's won MC 8 years in a row - a best of 3 tournament; won Barcelona 5 yrs in a row too...

Both are great but the 81 on clay is more impressive.
Agreed. Both are insanely good stats for the two greatest players of recent times - I won't class Djokovic as up with them...yet.

But you can't fight the numbers - it's many more matches in his winning streak and shows that Nadal is just that much more dominant on his favourite surface than Fed is/was on grass. And Fed was really dominant...
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:06 PM   #64
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Default Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

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Originally Posted by Ash86 View Post
You're probably the only one who thinks that. 81 on clay is far more impressive. a) It's a lot more - 81 matches is a lot. b) That's over Masters. 500s, slams - lots of events, lots of players. Fed's are Halle and Wimbledon - winning best of 5 matches on grass at his peak wasn't that hard for him and an upset hard to pull off. That leaves winning Halle 5 years in a row - Nadal's won MC 8 years in a row - a best of 3 tournament; won Barcelona 5 yrs in a row too...

Both are great but the 81 on clay is more impressive.
In general it's much easier to make a streak on a surface that rewards defense than offense be the margins are bigger. It's also easier to not lose over a 2-year span than 5-year one. As to the tournaments, 6(?) masters + 2 slams compared to 5 slams. Overall Fed's streak is more impressive I feel.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:10 PM   #65
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Default Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

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Originally Posted by Busterovic View Post
Obviously theres a direct correlation to this stat and winning slams since Murray has a dismal record in this department. Here is the rest of the top 4:

Federer: 33-38

Djokovic: 34-39

Murray: 18-29

To me Nadal's record is absolutely mind blowing. I realize that the majority of Nadal's wins are on clay and the fact that he isn't consistently playing these guys on hard courts is a knock on his game but this mark cannot be denied.

I for one thought that Nadal was done winning slams away from clay right after Djokovic eased to a 4 set win @ Wimbledon last year. Theres some support to this as its probably not well known but should be that Nadal has not won an AMS1000 event away from clay since March of 2009 at Indian Wells. Thats over a 40 month drought.

But theres no denying that to win slams its proven that you have to beat these guys and Nadal has shown that he can certainly do that. Again, I realize that Djokovic's record is not much worse than Murray's yet Nole is considered a living legend and Murray a bust so this stat doesn't tell the complete story but its definitely something to think about going forward and almost assures Nadal another slam or two.
Most wins are on clay. Tells me Nadal's best chances to win titles are on clay(RG). Specially after his 2 year drought off clay.
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:56 AM   #66
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Default Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

In any one on one sport you are judged by how you do against the best, not just numbers. So its very impressive.
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:26 AM   #67
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Default Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

doesn't tell us anything more than what we already know, he's usually fucked outside of clay
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:27 AM   #68
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Default Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

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In any one on one sport you are judged by how you do against the best, not just numbers. So its very impressive.
in tennis you are ultimately judged by what you achieve

being a top player-slayer means nothing if you can't achieve more than them
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:52 AM   #69
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Default Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash86 View Post
You're probably the only one who thinks that. 81 on clay is far more impressive. a) It's a lot more - 81 matches is a lot. b) That's over Masters. 500s, slams - lots of events, lots of players. Fed's are Halle and Wimbledon - winning best of 5 matches on grass at his peak wasn't that hard for him and an upset hard to pull off. That leaves winning Halle 5 years in a row - Nadal's won MC 8 years in a row - a best of 3 tournament; won Barcelona 5 yrs in a row too...

Both are great but the 81 on clay is more impressive.
I agree with you that both are great stats BUT it's much easier to get upset on grass than on clay. A big server who can hit big has a much better chance of making a huge upset on grass than on clay. Think about the first round of Roland Garros last year where Isner took Nadal to 5. Had that been grass who knows... the upset would have been more likely. Upsets on clay is really not all that likely. Even Federer himself kept making the FO final over and over and over and losing to the greatest clay court player ever, Nadal himself.

If Nadal was not so damn amazing on clay we would most likely be looking at Federer with about 6 French Opens right now. Just putting things in perspective. Without Federer, Nadal still would not have any where close to 6 Wimby titles.
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:14 AM   #70
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Default Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

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Originally Posted by RForever View Post
Oh, come one! The thread is about Rafa overall h2h, not with Fed. We have plenty of those already. His overall h2h is great, no doubt about it. He never chokes, fights for every ball, frustrates every opponent by forcing him to play extra ball (or ten extra balls) so no wonder he achieved it.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:10 AM   #71
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Default Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

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Originally Posted by sexybeast View Post
The question is not if claycourt matches should be taken away entirely but if he has played too many matches on clay against Federer and Djokovic (lets leave Murray out of this).

I mean 28 out of 61 matches on clay against his 2 greatest rivals means 46% of his matches against them has been on claycourt. Claycourts represent 25% of the tournaments on tour, so if this h2h would be fair he would not have almost half his matches on claycourts.

Imagine if Federer had half of his matches against Nadal/Djokovic on grass or indoor courts, how do you think the h2h would look like?

If Djokovic had half his matches against Nadal/Federer on slow hardcourt I think he would be leading both in the h2h.
This.

Rafa is a magnificent player and not a one-trick (aka clay) pony but it is certain that his resume is very clay heavy as some of his biggest wins are.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:06 PM   #72
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Default Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

Impressive stats.


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Originally Posted by habibko View Post
doesn't tell us anything more than what we already know, he's usually fucked outside of clay

If that is what you see in those stats then it's just a sad state of affairs.
Last time I checked, he won all different Slams on all different surfaces which is an impresive achievement as well.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:10 PM   #73
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Default Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

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Last time I checked, he won all different Slams on all different surfaces which is an impresive achievement as well.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:13 PM   #74
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Default Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

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Old 07-25-2012, 12:54 PM   #75
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Default Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

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Originally Posted by guga2120 View Post
In any one on one sport you are judged by how you do against the best, not just numbers. So its very impressive.
But a head to head is a number of less importance than Grand Slam wins which is a measure of performance against the whole field.
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