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Old 07-21-2012, 11:58 PM   #46
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Default Re: Why is the Underhand Serve so Reviled?

I legitimately hate people who think it's cheating. The position is so absurd that I get a headache just reading some of these replies. Ugh.
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Old 07-22-2012, 12:31 AM   #47
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Default Re: Why is the Underhand Serve so Reviled?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chenx15 View Post
That expression

Quote:
Originally Posted by latso View Post
There are some unwritten and written rules that make this sport special and i believe it's better to keep it that way.
Yeah I quite like the odd convention too. With the tour de france coming to a close it reminds me of the "not attacking yellow on final sunday" etiquette, just one of those things. It makes it more personable than just sport being a word for word rule book.

Still, the crowd getting in Hingis' face about it in that FO was dumb as.
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Old 07-22-2012, 12:52 AM   #48
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Default Re: Why is the Underhand Serve so Reviled?

Well, it is obvious some people feel very strongly about this. During my playing days I never really understood what people's hangup was about the underhand serve. I mean, it's a LEGAL play, case closed. I didn't use it that often when I played because it is hard to pull off. By the way, Karlovic's underhand serve technique is incredible, the best I've seen. It looks like he spent some time working on it. And he probably had good reason to do so. With that booming serve, he was constantly facing people playing way past the baseline on return, so it only makes sense that he would have it in his very occasional arsenal.

Anyway, I have enjoyed the back and forth on this topic.
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Old 07-22-2012, 03:29 AM   #49
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Default Re: Why is the Underhand Serve so Reviled?

I completely disagree with the posters who say it is cheap.

Entirely legal, in fact it adds a lot to the game. How many more points would Federer have won against Nadal (who stands miles from the baseline when receiving)? It is just another shot a player should possess in his/her arsenal, and a legal one at that.

Do people hate drop shots as well?

Also this whole ping pong argument is ridiculous. Since when does tennis take cues from TABLE tennis? A completely irrelevent argument if you ask me. As silly as someone referencing baseball rules.

Last edited by Gabe32 : 07-22-2012 at 03:38 AM.
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:22 AM   #50
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Default Re: Why is the Underhand Serve so Reviled?

my greatest weapon is my return game. and i usually make strong servers suffer once i started reading their serves and i can make an outright winner out of it. some of my very smart opponents basically drop serve me and i don't feel bad about it. part of the game. then they start messing with my head and i don't know where to position myself. anyway with that being said maybe there is some unwritten rule in tennis
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:33 AM   #51
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Default Re: Why is the Underhand Serve so Reviled?

why win with ease when you can damage your career and choke with a tiresome serve and awful 2-shot rallies?
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:16 AM   #52
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Default Re: Why is the Underhand Serve so Reviled?

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Originally Posted by cardio View Post
You just made one of most stupid and ignorant statements what I ever heard in this board. It is legit - just like dropshot , or lob , or bodyserve or hitting your opponent with ball . In all of these occasions opponent looks like a damn fool out there, runnig to get the lob he cant get back,running to get dropshot over the net and then being passed like sitting duck at the net, dodging the bullet on return, screaming in pain when 150 km/ h flying ball hurts his groin.Who the fuck cares of his feelings, of course he is pissed, that is whole purpose of it - to win the point, to get returner stand closer to baseline and to make him furious.

Why pros dont use it more ? Because players are not fools, it is surprise weapon, you just cant use it too often.Player who doesnt stand too far from baseline can easily get this serve and hit return winner.
First of all, a little civility in discourse would be nice.

Second of all, it was not a "stupid and ignorant" statement; yes, the shot is legal but the mores of tennis and its de facto rules frown upon its usage in competitive play.

In fact, the comments made on this thread delineate the differences between those who have played the game somewhat competitively and those who haven't.

Last edited by NYCtennisfan : 07-22-2012 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:34 AM   #53
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Default Re: Why is the Underhand Serve so Reviled?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCtennisfan View Post
First of all, a little civility in discourse would be nice.

Second of all, it was not a "stupid and ignorant" statement; yes, the shot is legal but the mores of tennis and its de riguer rules frown upon its usage in competitive play.

In fact, the comments made on this thread delineate the differences between those who have played the game somewhat competitively and those who haven't.
he is right though, there is no value in what you replied to him. it is a mockery to judge whether or not he has played the game competitively or not; the fact is that it is legal to play the shot. If someone doesn't like it that is one thing, but to purely say that players shouldn't do it because it is sometimes considered a slight by the extremely unexpected nature of the whole thing is ludicrous.

It is entirely irrelevant if someone comments on here with prior experience of competitive play, nor would you have any idea of what their experience is. The shot has been done before in quite big matches so clearly SOME pro players find it appropriate at times which would contradict what you say about a general frowning upon.

The fact is that it is a risky shot to hit because if the opponent reaches it they will likely win the point, and because hitting an underhand serve just right is sometimes rather difficult.

It's legal, professional players have used it before, and it's absolutely ridiculous that some of you (regardless of your experience) think that it's a shot that is worth being offended by. I have no idea how you must feel when a player wins a point off of a net chord, maybe spend a good deal of time with tissues and tears.

It would be a clever thing to use in today's game, but it is not so surprising many of you applaud the one dimensional game of today and fear the thought of a player mixing things up
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:53 AM   #54
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Default Re: Why is the Underhand Serve so Reviled?

Mountaindewslave -- in certain limited situations, yes, the shot could be effective, but the reason you see so little use of it (other than the fact that it would be hard to pull off consistently and the opportunity cost of a good first serve, particularly for a good server, is too great) is because you learn, at an academy, from your parents, wherever and from whomever, not to do it. You can do it while practicing, joking around, etc., but NOT when you play a competitive match.

Now, this doesn't mean that the underarm serve isn't legal, but if you grow up playing this sport, you absorb the fact that the de facto rules of the sport frown upon its use, and that whoever uses this tactic often will be told about it in the locker room and will not be held in any sort of esteem by his peers.

People can argue that this view is silly, antiquated, or whatever, but it is the view of the vast majority of those that play the sport and that was what Doug was pointing out.

Last edited by NYCtennisfan : 07-22-2012 at 06:59 AM.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:59 AM   #55
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Default Re: Why is the Underhand Serve so Reviled?

It is a tough shot to pull off first of all. I mean we all know if someone can hit a perfect drop shot from the baseline, it is instantly a highlight. Now imagine, you trying to pull this shot which has much less disguise since once the opponent sees you aren't tossing the ball, it is quite obvious. Sure, if you can make it, great shot, but really the repercussions of trying it ESPECIALLY on an important point are too great for it to be worth it. You'll be thinking to yourself, why didn't I just hit a regular serve, and the crowd might go against you in some cases. And you know for a fact commentators and reporters alike will be hounding you about it especially if you go on to lose the match. Mentally, just a really tough shot to execute. Who really practices that shot?
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:25 AM   #56
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Default Re: Why is the Underhand Serve so Reviled?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardio View Post
You just made one of most stupid and ignorant statements what I ever heard in this board. It is legit - just like dropshot , or lob , or bodyserve or hitting your opponent with ball . In all of these occasions opponent looks like a damn fool out there, runnig to get the lob he cant get back,running to get dropshot over the net and then being passed like sitting duck at the net, dodging the bullet on return, screaming in pain when 150 km/ h flying ball hurts his groin.Who the fuck cares of his feelings, of course he is pissed, that is whole purpose of it - to win the point, to get returner stand closer to baseline and to make him furious.

Why pros dont use it more ? Because players are not fools, it is surprise weapon, you just cant use it too often.Player who doesnt stand too far from baseline can easily get this serve and hit return winner.
There´s really no reason for that aggressive tone. I never questioned the legimity of the shot, but one of the great things about this sport is that it´s ( at least to an extent)a gentelemens sport, and it´s not ALL about winning, there are thing you just don´t do on court.

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he is right though, there is no value in what you replied to him. it is a mockery to judge whether or not he has played the game competitively or not; the fact is that it is legal to play the shot. If someone doesn't like it that is one thing, but to purely say that players shouldn't do it because it is sometimes considered a slight by the extremely unexpected nature of the whole thing is ludicrous.

It is entirely irrelevant if someone comments on here with prior experience of competitive play, nor would you have any idea of what their experience is. The shot has been done before in quite big matches so clearly SOME pro players find it appropriate at times which would contradict what you say about a general frowning upon.

The fact is that it is a risky shot to hit because if the opponent reaches it they will likely win the point, and because hitting an underhand serve just right is sometimes rather difficult.

It's legal, professional players have used it before, and it's absolutely ridiculous that some of you (regardless of your experience) think that it's a shot that is worth being offended by. I have no idea how you must feel when a player wins a point off of a net chord, maybe spend a good deal of time with tissues and tears.

It would be a clever thing to use in today's game, but it is not so surprising many of you applaud the one dimensional game of today and fear the thought of a player mixing things up
Like NYCtennisfan said, looking at the replies in this thread its pretty obvious that some have played the game competitively and some haven´t. To anyone who has played it, it´s obvious that you just don´t use that shot, at least not if you want to be respected after the match. Yes, it has been used by some pros, but the reason it´s not used more is that most of the players don´t want to insult their opponent. Comparing this with net cords that are unintentional strokes of luck ( or bad luck) is pointless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCtennisfan View Post
Mountaindewslave -- in certain limited situations, yes, the shot could be effective, but the reason you see so little use of it (other than the fact that it would be hard to pull off consistently and the opportunity cost of a good first serve, particularly for a good server, is too great) is because you learn, at an academy, from your parents, wherever and from whomever, not to do it. You can do it while practicing, joking around, etc., but NOT when you play a competitive match.

Now, this doesn't mean that the underarm serve isn't legal, but if you grow up playing this sport, you absorb the fact that the de facto rules of the sport frown upon its use, and that whoever uses this tactic often will be told about it in the locker room and will not be held in any sort of esteem by his peers.

People can argue that this view is silly, antiquated, or whatever, but it is the view of the vast majority of those that play the sport and that was what Doug was pointing out.
This is exactly what I tried to say. I suppose it sounds like a stupid and ridicilous thing to those that have not played the game themselves, but to those that have, it´s pretty clear.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:25 AM   #57
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Default Re: Why is the Underhand Serve so Reviled?

This shot is not yet banned because it's not often used and it's not often used becaused it is stupid as it gives you no advantage in the point.

In 90% of the cases the returner will be at the ball on time to execute you like a pigeon.

If it would have been a shot that gives advantage to the server it would have been more often used, would have made the game look like a clownery and the ATP would have banned it in no time.

Simple as that.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:40 AM   #58
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Default Re: Why is the Underhand Serve so Reviled?

5 things
1 - it is LEGAL
2 - it isn't cheap
3 - it isn't clownish
4 - it isn't a coward shot
5 - it is a gentleman shot just like every other shot
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:47 AM   #59
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Default Re: Why is the Underhand Serve so Reviled?

That shot wouldn´t be banned even if it would be used, wasn´t underarm serve the one which was used in the past actually? In that case the one who came first with this "normal" serve was cheating back then? If I understand tennis properly you have to win the point/match, I actually never saw a lost rally after underarm serve which went in, so as long as it´s used as a surprise move I have no idea where the problem is...Someone else can actually start to argue that between the legs shot should be banned because in tennis it´s not normal to hit a shot betweeen the legs?
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:48 AM   #60
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Default

People whining about the underhanded serve now?

This shot is very much legit and also less embarrassing to the opponent than for example Fed's (and Funky Flo's) FH slice/fake dropshot.

Underhanded serve works fine as a change-up on the serve. It is a shot that creates drama. Should be used more often imo.
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