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Old 07-24-2012, 12:46 PM   #61
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

Many Serbians live in a perpetual state of self-victimization. Even though, they are soley responsible for their own misfortunes. Ironically, they are a lot like many Muslim nations in that regard.

And pride has nothing to do with simply accepting the facts. The pre-1492 people of North and South America were primitives, who were thousands of years behind human development in every single way. The idea that they should have been left alone on these huge continents while civilized society was forbidden to expand is like saying that we were wrong to leave the caves in the first place. The Indians had to be conquered, it was inevitable. And it was the way that the world was formed. It never ceases to amaze me when people have the nerve to act like what happened in the New World was any different than what happened for thousands of years in Europe, Asia and etc... Most Americans of that time were descendents of the British Isles. How many original ethnic Britons do you think were still around from before the Roman invasions? Britain was conquered so many times, by so many different people that the original British race had long been wiped out or bred into oblivion. Same with all of pre-Roman Europe. Yet this is forgotten and it becomes this atrocious crime outside of Europe for some reason.
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:49 PM   #62
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

If I were an American, I'd like to keep my guns. That's the only thing that stops people like Obama from doing what they want.
Taejin, it's a bit hypocritical for us to criticize American gun laws. We have restrictive law, but no one cares about it and every (rural) house has an AK.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:03 PM   #63
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

Any thoughts on carrying concealed weapons?

Would this have helped or possibly deterred the gunman?

Where I was raised up you could walk down the street past houses carrying a rifle or any arms. No one worried about it or called police. It was normal.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:06 PM   #64
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

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Originally Posted by swisht4u View Post
Any thoughts on carrying concealed weapons?

Would this have helped or possibly deterred the gunman?

Where I was raised up you could walk down the street past houses carrying a rifle or any arms. No one worried about it or called police. It was normal.
That's the point. Aurora has strict gun laws that forbid it. And yes, a man or woman there who was armed, could have stopped it. It has happened before. The old man in Florida who prevented the armed robbery like a day or two before would have blown him away.

And foreigners simply refuse to understand how many Americans legally carry firearms, as opposed to the random psycho's and gang violence that they read about as the argument against gun ownership.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:14 PM   #65
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

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Taejin, it's a bit hypocritical for us to criticize American gun laws. We have restrictive law, but no one cares about it and every (rural) house has an AK.
Why hypocritical? I think whoever think he needs an AK at home needs to have his head examined.

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And pride has nothing to do with simply accepting the facts. The pre-1492 people of North and South America were primitives, who were thousands of years behind human development in every single way. The idea that they should have been left alone on these huge continents while civilized society was forbidden to expand is like saying that we were wrong to leave the caves in the first place. The Indians had to be conquered, it was inevitable. And it was the way that the world was formed. It never ceases to amaze me when people have the nerve to act like what happened in the New World was any different than what happened for thousands of years in Europe, Asia and etc... Most Americans of that time were descendents of the British Isles. How many original ethnic Britons do you think were still around from before the Roman invasions? Britain was conquered so many times, by so many different people that the original British race had long been wiped out or bred into oblivion. Same with all of pre-Roman Europe. Yet this is forgotten and it becomes this atrocious crime outside of Europe for some reason.
That's like a Nazi saying Jews had to be taken care of, it was inevitable. Tripwires was right, you really are devoid of reason.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:19 PM   #66
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

[quote=Taejin;12246068]Why hypocritical? I think whoever think he needs an AK at home needs to have his head examined.

Why? Do we live in Switzerland or Island and I don't know about it?

Actually, Swiss can keep automatic weapons at home.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:19 PM   #67
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

Always the demagoguery. Oh, you say you don't accept modern 21st century PC reasoning as the facts, then you are a Nazi or in the KKK or whatever. If you had any ability for real independent thought at all, you would realize that such an example is utterly ludicrous. The Jewish communities in Europe have always been among the most intelligent and creative of all human societies. It's entirely the opposite situation. The Nazis were acting against the interests of human advancement. While the conquest and civilization of primitive human societies that contribute nothing to it's growth was/is an evolutionary imperative.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:30 PM   #68
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

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Why? Do we live in Switzerland or Island and I don't know about it?
So, what will you do with it? Shoot at our enemies?

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Always the demagoguery. Oh, you say you don't accept modern 21st century PC reasoning as the facts, then you are a Nazi or in the KKK or whatever. If you had any ability for real independent thought at all, you would realize that such an example is utterly ludicrous. The Jewish communities in Europe have always been among the most intelligent and creative of all human societies. It's entirely the opposite situation. The Nazis were acting against the interests of human advancement. While the conquest and civilization of primitive human societies that contribute nothing to it's growth was/is an evolutionary imperative.
Yea, imagine that, they were not creative and not civilized enough, so they deserved to die. Behold, champion of independent thought
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:37 PM   #69
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

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So, what will you do with it? Shoot at our enemies?
Is this a trick question? Should I offer them coffee and cake instead?
You can't and mustn't forbid the law abiding citizens the right to protect themselves while criminals can arm themselves on the black market.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:43 PM   #70
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

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That's the whole point. Colorado (and Aurora in particular) has some of the most strict gun laws in the US. If one of them were carrying, they could have saved a lot of people. I've carried a concealed weapon on me since I turned 21. If someone ever started shooting around me, they had better hope I am one of the first down.
Are you serious? This loony stormed into a movie theatre, presumably when the house lights were off and the movie had started, flooded the theatre with smoke gas, then started shooting at the audience, and you think that less people would have died if someone in the audience had carried a gun? In the confusion and panic, coupled with the poor visibility caused by the smoke, I'd hedge my bets more on a well-intended member of the audience accidentally shooting someone in the audience before he took a proper shot at the guy doing the shooting. If America had stricter gun controls, the chances of you ever finding someone shooting around you would be considerably lower, and you wouldn't even need to carry a weapon around.

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Why not? You can pretty much be who you want to be. Not like Singapore.
I apologise for the cheap shot, but - at least I have a job.

Seriously, though, I hate a lot of things about my country, but there are two topics of discussion that I've engaged in on MTF that have made me thankful to live in Singapore: drugs and guns. I cannot imagine living in a country where people carry around guns for fun. I feel uneasy when I see soldiers patrolling MRT stations carrying assault weapons - and since this is Singapore and barely anything ever happens here, the rifles are probably not even loaded. I can't imagine sitting in a cafe next to someone who's carrying a gun. That is absolutely senseless to me.

Also, Singapore isn't that bad if all you care about is making a comfortable living and starting a family and living in a safe country. For people like me who want more out of life, we have the means to leave - and always the option of returning to our safe cocoon when the real world gets us down. All in all, despite all my complaints about my country, I think I have it pretty okay.

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I am still waiting for you to list any of the nations in the world that were free or had the kind of fundamental rights that the majority of citizens of the US had at the times. I want you to list them.
Surely you know that this argument is utterly pointless, right?

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Genocide? If the US (or the European nations that began the wars) had wanted to wipe out the Indians, it would have been done. And they came here from Asia and wiped out the first race that was here. They were no more native Americans than any recent immigrants. Their numbers were always vastly exaggerated. You want to look at genocidal wars involving the Indians, you look at the wars they had with each other. And they owned slaves in places where they still had control for decades after they were freed in the South. You remember that when you bring up the "unfortunate" Indians. They were brutal, imperialistic societies that destroyed and enslaved their enemies at any opportunity. The constant whining and accusations about their defeat is just more sickening hypocrisy from abroad. The same kind of sickening hypocrisy that is used against the Israelis. Even though they have historical rights, even more so than the right of conquest that created the world we live in.
So your argument is that the white Europeans who basically tried to get rid of the Native Indians were okay because the Indians were worse? Okay then.

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Once again. It was founded as a nation of free white men. And became a superpower under segregation. The whole multi-cultural and tolerant America is modern propaganda. When I speak of free, I talk about the rights of the white men who fought in the Revolution, then built the country into what it was. And gave it to their descendents. Not the slaves who were not considered to be citizens. And didn't have the rights or the responsibilities.
Are you saying that you don't believe in the modern idea of America? Are you also saying that America was founded as a racist nation? That's nice to hear. Also, I think it was a bit difficult for the slaves to have rights and responsibilities when they weren't given any.

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Most Americans of any race today (including me) are not direct descendents of the original colonists, but the point remains that their revolution and their legacy is what created the modern free societies.
You mean YOUR modern American free society. I seem to remember this tiny event that happened in Europe that had quite a huge part to play in shaping modern ideas of democracy...it started on 14 July, 1789. Can't quite remember what it was though. But since it didn't happen in America, I'm sure it was insignificant.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:43 PM   #71
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

Not die. Adapt. And those that won't adapt and evolve will naturally die. And not just true for the Indian societies, but the elements of European society at the time as well.

Like I said, the term genocide implies that the US actively set about to exterminate the Indians, rather than than conquer and improve the land. Not true. There was never that many of them in the first place. The number of those that were killed has always been shamelessly exaggerated. The US and the European nations went out of their way to make treaties and establish co-existence and despite the modern propaganda, the Indians frequently broke the treaties as well as the settlers. If the US wanted to engage in genocide, it could have easily been done by the end of the 19th century. So it's unfair and untrue to say that the US engaged in genocide. The English treated the Irish far worse for far longer than the US ever treated the Indians. Yet we don't call it racism or genocide. If the peoples of the Americas had been white, the situation would have been the same. It was never about race, it was about their primitive cultures.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:47 PM   #72
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

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Is this a trick question? Should I offer them coffee and cake instead?
You can't and mustn't forbid the law abiding citizens the right to protect themselves while criminals can arm themselves on the black market.
Then it's up to the government to enact the appropriate laws and put in place strong enforcement measures. What, is your government paid by the taxpayers to sit around and do nothing?
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:47 PM   #73
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You mean YOUR modern American free society. I seem to remember this tiny event that happened in Europe that had quite a huge part to play in shaping modern ideas of democracy...it started on 14 July, 1789. Can't quite remember what it was though. But since it didn't happen in America, I'm sure it was insignificant.
So you don't understand or believe that the French Revolution was inspired and a direct result of the American Revolution. And that was the point I was making?

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Old 07-24-2012, 01:48 PM   #74
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Is this a trick question? Should I offer them coffee and cake instead?
You can't and mustn't forbid the law abiding citizens the right to protect themselves while criminals can arm themselves on the black market.
Go ahead, and you could spend the rest of your life behind bars, according to Serbian law. Besides, if some real criminal were after you, I doubt you would even have the chance to get to your weapon. More likely some kid will find it and god help it then.

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Not die. Adapt. And those that won't adapt and evolve will naturally die. And not just true for the Indian societies, but the elements of European society at the time as well.

Like I said, the term genocide implies that the US actively set about to exterminate the Indians, rather than than conquer and improve the land. Not true. There was never that many of them in the first place. The number of those that were killed has always been shamelessly exaggerated. The US and the European nations went out of their way to make treaties and establish co-existence and despite the modern propaganda, the Indians frequently broke the treaties as well as the settlers. If the US wanted to engage in genocide, it could have easily been done by the end of the 19th century. So it's unfair and untrue to say that the US engaged in genocide. The English treated the Irish far worse for far longer than the US ever treated the Indians. Yet we don't call it racism or genocide. If the peoples of the Americas had been white, the situation would have been the same. It was never about race, it was about their primitive cultures.
They didn't die naturally, they were killed. Only a collateral damage in the process of conquering and improving the land - the land that had it's owner by the way, so murder and larceny. Fascinating though how you find reasons to justify it, to belittle the numbers, and to subscribe everything to propaganda. Admirable job.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:50 PM   #75
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

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Actually, Swiss can keep automatic weapons at home.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...in_Switzerland
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